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04-28-2011
Title:
Menachos 52 - THE PURCHASE OF THE

Message:
1) THE PURCHASE OF THE "PAR HE'ELAM DAVAR"

(a) (Beraisa #1 - R. Yehudah): If (most of Yisrael transgressed on account of a mistaken Hora'ah of the Great Sanhedrin, so) we must bring Par He'elam Davar (and for idolatry, Se'iri Avodah Zarah), we collect money to buy it;
(b) R. Shimon says, it is bought from Shekalim in Terumas ha'Lishkah.
(c) Contradiction (Beraisa #2): R. Shimon says that we collect money, R. Yehudah says that it comes from Terumas ha'Lishkah.
(d) Question: Which Beraisa is later (after they retracted, we will rely on it)?
(e) Answer #1 (Rabanan): Presumably, Beraisa #1 is more authoritative, for we know that R. Shimon is concerned for negligence (e.g. of heirs of the Kohen Gadol.)
(f) Rejection (Rav Ashi): Perhaps Beraisa #2 is more authoritative, i.e. R. Shimon is (normally) concerned for negligence, but not regarding things brought for atonement!
(g) Answer #2 (Rabah Zuti - Beraisa - R. Shimon): "Es *Korbani Lachmi l'Ishai* Re'ach Nichochi Tishmeru Lehakriv Li b'Moado" - the extra words include Par He'elam Davar and Se'iri Avodah Zarah, that they come from Terumas ha'Lishkah. (Since he expounds a verse, presumably this was his final opinion, like Beraisa #1.)
2) OFFERING "CHAVITIM" WITH A FULL "ISARON"
(a) (Mishnah): The full amount was offered.
(b) Question (R. Chiya bar Aba): Was the full amount offered in the morning and again in the afternoon, or only in the morning, and nothing was offered in the afternoon?
(c) Answer (Rava - Mishnah): The eighth (Kohen selected in the lottery) offered the Chavitim.
1. (We learned that 13 Kohanim engaged in the morning Tamid, 13 in the afternoon Tamid -) if it is not offered in the afternoon, sometimes there are only 12, i.e. when the Kohen died and was not replaced!
(d) Rejection (R. Yirmeyah - Mishnah): The seventh offered the Soles...the ninth offered the wine.
1. According to Rava, we should say that also these are offered without fail - but we know that "Minchasam v'Niskeihem" may be offered that night or the next day!
2. Rather, we must say that the Mishnah discusses the normal case, it does not mention exceptions;
i. Likewise, it does not mention when Chavitim are not offered in the afternoon!
(e) Retraction (Rava): Indeed, I erred.
(f) Retraction of retraction (Rava): My teaching was correct - "Soles Minchas Tamid", Chavitim are like Minchas Tamid (they are offered without fail.)
(g) Question: What was the conclusion?
(h) Answer (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak - Beraisa): The full amount is offered in the morning and in the afternoon.
(i) (R. Yochanan): Aba Yosi ben Dostai and Chachamim argue about (the normal Hakravah of) Chavitim:
1. Aba Yosi ben Dostai says, two Komtzim of Levonah are brought with it, one in the morning and one in the afternoon;
2. Chachamim say, one Kometz is brought, half in the morning and half in the afternoon.
(j) Question: Why do they argue?
(k) Answer: Aba Yosi says, we never find half a Kometz offered; Chachamim say, we never find two Komtzim offered for one Isaron.
(l) Question (R. Yochanan): According to Chachamim, if the Kohen Gadol died and was not replaced, do we double the Levonah (and offer a full Kometz with the Isaron, morning and afternoon?)
52b---------------------------------------52b

1. Since double the flour is offered, also double the Levonah is offered;
2. Or, perhaps we double only what the Torah explicitly says to double?
(m) Question #2: According to everyone, do we double the oil?
(n) Answer (Rava - Mishnah): The Shi'ur of a Kometz applies to five things...
1. If a full Kometz is offered morning and afternoon, both of these should be counted, there would be seven!
2. (Surely, the Mishnah is like Chachamim; presumably, just like the Levonah is not doubled, also the oil. We have no source that Aba Yosi argues about oil.)
(o) Rejection: The Mishnah does not discuss b'Diavad cases.
(p) Objection (Rav Yosef bar Shemayah): One of the five cases is one who offers a Kometz outside the Mikdash (is liable), which is b'Diavad!
(q) Question: What was the conclusion?
(r) Answer (to both questions - Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak - Beraisa): If the Kohen Gadol died and was not replaced, in the morning we offer a full Isaron, a full Kometz, and use half of the three Lugim of oil; we offer the same in the afternoon.
1. Question: Who is the Tana?
i. If it is Chachamim, why is the Levonah doubled, but not the oil?!
2. Answer: It is Aba Yosi, who says that two Komtzim are always brought with Chavitim - neither the Levonah nor the oil is doubled.
3. We have no source that Tana'im argue about oil - surely, Chachamim also say that it is not doubled, and also Levonah is not doubled.
(s) (R. Yochanan): The Halachah follows Aba Yosi.
(t) Question: But R. Yochanan taught that the Halachah follows a Stam (unauthored) Mishnah (and the above Mishnah is like Chachamim!)
(u) Answer: Amora'im argue about what R. Yochanan said (really, he said only one of the above two teachings.)
***** PEREK KOL HA'MENACHOS ****
3) ALL "MENACHOS" ARE "MATZAH"

(a) (Mishnah): All Menachos are Matzah, except for the Chametz loaves brought with Todah and Shtei ha'Lechem, which are Chametz:
1. R. Meir says, we take some flour from the Isaron, knead it, and return it to the flour - it becomes Se'or (sourdough) and ferments the rest.
2. R. Yehudah says, this is not ideal fermentation - rather, old (well-fermented) Se'or is put into the measuring Kli, flour is added to complete the Isaron.
3. Chachamim: If so, there will be too much or too little flour!

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