Chesed Club World Wide Center & Discussion Groups


Menachos 90 -


(a) Answer #2 (Rava): The lambs of the Omer and Tamid are Olos, if they are not brought like Chovos (like their original laws), they are Nedavos;
1. R. Yochanan specifically taught Asham Metzora, if it is not brought like Chovah (with Nesachim), it cannot be a Nedavah.
(b) Support (for R. Yochanan - Beraisa): If Asham Metzora was slaughtered Lo Lishmah, or if its blood was not put on the Behonos, it is offered on the Mizbe'ach, it requires Nesachim; the Metzora must bring another Asham.
(a) (Mishnah): All the measures in the Mikdash were Gedushos (when they are overflowing, the measure is complete), except (those used for Chavitim) of the Kohen Gadol, which were Mechukos (they properly contain the full measure).
(b) Birutzim (drops that spill over the brim when a Kli is filled to overflowing) of wet measures are Kodesh, those of dry measures are Chulin;
(c) R. Akiva says, wet measures are Kodesh, therefore their Birutzim are Kodesh; dry measures are Chulin, therefore their Birutzim are Chulin;
(d) R. Yosi says, this is not the reason - rather, liquids are Ne'ekar (when a vessel is filled to overflowing, liquid that was inside is pushed outside, it already became Kodesh), solids are not Ne'ekar.
(e) (Gemara) Question: (The Mishnah says that all the measures were Gedushos, except of the Kohen Gadol -) who is the Tana?
1. This is unlike R. Meir - he holds that there was only one Gadush measure (an Isaron, and two Mechukos for Chavitim, Isaron and half-Isaron);
2. This is unlike Chachamim - they hold that there was only one measure (other than the Machuk half-Isaron for Chavitim), it was (also) Machuk!
(f) Answer (Rav Chisda): It is like R. Meir - it means, all the *measurings* were Gedushos...
(a) (Mishnah): Birutzim of wet measures are Kodesh.
(b) Question: What do they argue about?
(c) Answer: The first Tana holds that wet measures were Mekudashos (with Shemen ha'Mishchah) on the inside and outside, dry measures were Mekudashos only on the inside;
1. R. Akiva holds that wet measures were Mekudashos on the inside and outside, dry measures were not Mekudashos at all (what is put inside only gets Kedushas Peh, i.e. the person says that it should be Kodesh, he is Mekadesh only what he needs, not Birutzim);
2. R. Yosi holds that both of them were Mekudashos only on the inside - Birutzim of wet measures are Kodesh because liquids are Ne'ekar, they were once in the Kli.
(d) Question: A person intends to Mekadesh only what he needs, being Ne'ekar does not make things Kodesh!
(e) Answer #1 (Rav Dimi bar Shishna): This teaches that Kli Shares Mekadesh without a person's intent.
(f) Answer #2 (Ravina): We can say that Kli Shares are not Mekadesh without intent - Chachamim decreed that Birutzim of wet measures are Kodesh, lest people think that we may use (for Chulin) things that were in a Kli Shares.
(g) Question (R. Zeira - Mishnah): If Lechem ha'Panim was put on the Shulchan after Shabbos and the Bazichei Levonah were Huktar the following Shabbos, the bread is Pasul;
1. Rather, the bread must be left on the Shulchan from Shabbos to Shabbos (in this case, 13 days after it was put there, only then we Maktir the Levonah), it is no problem to leave the bread on the Shulchan for many days.
2. According to Ravina, we should decree that it is Pasul, lest people think that Linah does not apply to something in a Kli Shares, even if left longer than is proper!
(h) Answer: That does not disprove Ravina - Lechem ha'Panim is in the Heichal, only Kohanim know how long it was there (they are zealous, we are not concerned that they will err), but measures are used outside the Heichal, everyone can see Birutzim being used for Chulin, people will err.
(i) (Mishnah): Mosar (extra) Nesachim are used to buy Kitz ha'Mizbe'ach (Olos Tzibur to bring when the Mizbe'ach is idle.)
(j) Question: What is Mosar Nesachim?
(k) Answer #1 (R. Chiya bar Yosef): It is Birutzei Midos.
(l) Answer #2 (R. Yochanan): It is Hekdesh's profit from changing prices (like the following):
i. (Mishnah): If Ploni agreed to supply Soles (to Hekdesh) at the price of four (Sa'im per Sela), and the price rose to three, he supplies at the rate of four;

ii. If he agreed to supply at the price of three, and the price declined to four, he supplies at the rate of four;
iii. This is because Hekdesh has the upper hand.
(m) One Beraisa supports R. Chiya bar Yosef, another supports R. Yochanan.
(n) (Beraisa #1): If there is a Korban in the Azarah (without Nesachim), Birutzei Midos may be used for it;
1. If Lanu (our text, i.e. they were left overnight; the text in the Tosefta is 'Lav', i.e. if they were not used for it), they are Nifsalim on account of Linah;
2. If no Korban is around, they are (redeemed and) used for Kitz ha'Mizbe'ach, i.e. Olos, the meat is Huktar, the Kohanim receive the skin
(o) (Beraisa #2): If Ploni agreed to supply (to Hekdesh) at the price of four and the price rose to three, or vice-versa, he supplies at the rate of four - this is because Hekdesh has the upper hand;
1. About this profit we learned 'Mosar Nesachim are used to buy Kitz ha'Mizbe'ach.'
(a) (Mishnah): All Korbanos, of the Tzibur or of individuals, require Nesachim, except for Bechor, Ma'aser, Pesach, and (most cases of) Chatas and Asham;
1. The Chatas and Asham of a Metzora require Nesachim.
(b) (Gemara - Beraisa) Suggestion: "V'Asisem *Isheh* la'Sh-m" - perhaps everything Huktar requires Nesachim, even a Minchah!
1. Rejection: "Olah".
2. Question: What is the source that Shelamim requires Nesachim?
3. Answer: "Zevach".
4. Question: What is the source that Todah requires Nesachim?
5. Answer: "*O* Zevach".
6. Suggestion: Perhaps we include even Bechor, Ma'aser, Pesach, Chatas and Asham!
7. Rejection: "Lefalei Neder O vi'Ndavah" - only Korbanos that can be brought for Nedavah require Nesachim.
8. Suggestion: We should exclude obligatory Korbanos of the festivals, i.e. Olos Re'iyah and Shalmei Chagigah!
9. Rejection: "O b'Mo'adeichem" - anything (that must be) brought on the festival requires Nesachim.
10. Suggestion: We should include the Chatas (goat) that is part of Musaf on each day of the festival, it is obligatory!
11. Rejection - Question: "V'Chi Sa'aseh Ven Bakar" - the Parshah already mentioned cattle and flock, why does it mention cattle again?
i. Answer: The verse discusses a bull brought for Nedavah, it teaches that only (kinds of) Korbanos that can be brought for Nedavah require Nesachim (e.g. Olos and Shelamim, even Chovos of the festival, but not Chata'os.)
12. Question: What do we learn from "La'asos Re'ach Nicho'ach la'Sh-m Min ha'Bakar O Min ha'Tzon"?
13. Answer #1 (R. Yoshiyah): Since it says "Olah", one might have thought that even Olas ha'Of is included;
i. "Min ha'Bakar O Min ha'Tzon" (only animals, not birds.)
14. Objection (R. Yonason): We do not need this to exclude birds - it says "Zevach", Korbanos ha'Of are not slaughtered!
15. Question: What does R. Yonason learn from "La'asos Re'ach...Min ha'Bakar O Min ha'Tzon"?
16. Answer: Since it says "Adam Ki Yakriv...Min ha'Behemah Min ha'Bakar *u*'Min ha'Tzon", one might have thought that one who vows to bring an Olah must bring a bull *and* Seh - "Min ha'Bakar O Min ha'Tzon" teaches that he need not bring more than one of them.
17. Question: According to R. Yonason, why must it say "O" - he holds that even (the prefix) 'Vov' connotes 'or', unless it explicitly says 'Yachdav' (together, like it says regarding Kilayim!)
18. Answer: Since it says "Adam...*U*'Min ha'Tzon" (and it could have omitted the 'Vov'), it is as if it says 'Yachdav'.
19. Question: R. Yoshiyah holds that 'Vov' connotes and, even if it does not say 'Yachdav' - what is his source that a vow to bring 'Olah' does not obligate bringing a bull *and* Seh?
20. Answer: It says "Im Olah Korbano Min ha'Bakar"
i. R. Yonason says, this verse is not enough - one might have thought, if one specifically vows to bring only one, this suffices, but if he vows without specifying, he must bring both.