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08-02-2011
Title:
Menachos 106 - OFFERING THE UNSPECIFIED VOW

Message:
1) OFFERING THE UNSPECIFIED VOW

(a) Question: We do not know what to do with the extra oil!
1. If he vowed half Chalos and half Rekikim, some of the half-Log of oil for the Rekikim is put on them, the extra is added to the half-Log for the Chalos and mixed with the flour for the Chalos;
2. If he vowed only Rekikim, all the excess oil is eaten by Kohanim!
(b) Answer: The Beraisa is like R. Shimon ben Yehudah:
1. (Beraisa - R. Shimon ben Yehudah citing R. Shimon): If he vowed some Chalos and some Rekikim, he anoints the Rekikim in the form of an 'X', the extra oil is eaten by Kohanim.
(c) Question (Rav Kahana): Perhaps he vowed Minchas Nesachim!
1. (Rava): A person may bring a Nedavah of Minchas Nesachim (by itself) every day.
(d) Answer #1: We only suspect that he vowed to bring something that only individuals bring, not something brought by the Tzibur;
(e) Answer #2: We only suspect that he vowed to bring something that (normally) is brought by itself.
(f) Answer #3: We only suspect that he vowed to bring something that requires Levonah.
(g) Answer #4: We only suspect that he vowed to bring something that requires one Log of oil (per Isaron), not three (or two) Lugim.
(h) Answer #5: We only suspect that he vowed to bring something that requires Kemitzah.
2) THE ARGUMENT OF REBBI AND CHACHAMIM
(a) (Mishnah): If he knows that he specified a certain number of Esronim...
(b) (Beraisa - Chachamim): If he knows that he specified to bring a certain number of Esronim in one Kli, but does not remember the amount, he must bring 60 Esronim;
(c) Rebbi says, he must bring Menachos of every size, from one Isaron until 60, 1830 Esronim in all.
(d) Chachamim say, if he knows that he specified the type and size of Minchah, but does not remember either, he must bring a Minchah of 60 Esronim of each of the five types;
(e) Rebbi says, he must bring Menachos of every size, from one Isaron until 60, for each of the five types, 9150 Esronim in all.
(f) Question: What do they argue about?
(g) Answer #1 (Rav Chisda): They argue about whether or not it is permitted to bring Chulin into the Azarah:
1. Chachamim permit this - therefore, he brings 60 Esronim, some (or all) is his vow, the rest is Chulin;
2. Rebbi forbids Chulin in the Azarah, therefore, the only solution is to bring Menachos of every size (one is his vow, the rest are Nedavos.)
(h) Answer #2 (Rabah): All forbid Chulin in the Azarah - they argue about whether or not one may mix Chovah (the vow he was obligated to bring) with Nedavah:
1. Chachamim permit this - he brings 60 Esronim, some (or all) is his vow, the rest is Nedavah;
2. Rebbi forbids mixing, therefore, he must bring Menachos of every size.
(i) Question (Abaye): You say that Chachamim permit mixing Chovah with Nedavah - but Kemitzah of each must be taken!
(j) Answer: A Kemitzah is taken for one of them, and another for the other.
(k) Question: Perhaps some of the Kemitzah l'Shem Chovah was from the Nedavah, and/or vice-versa!
(l) Answer: The owner stipulates based on what the Kohen will take:
1. Whatever the Kohen takes in his hand the first time is (part of the) Chovah, what he takes the second time is Nedavah.
(m) Question: How can he Maktir the Komtzim?
1. If he is Maktir (the Kometz of) the Nedavah first he cannot Maktir (that of) the Chovah later - perhaps all of it was Chovah, the Shirayim are Chaserim (a 'Kometz' was Huktar l'Shem Nedavah);
i. If Shirei Minchah became Chaser in between Kemitzah and Haktarah, we do not Maktir the Kometz.
2. If he is Maktir the Chovah first he cannot Maktir the Nedavah later - perhaps all of it was Chovah, the 'Kometz' of the Nedavah is really Shirayim;
106b---------------------------------------106b

i. It is forbidden Lehaktir Shirayim of anything which is partially Huktar!
(n) Answer (Rav Yehudah brei d'R. Shimon ben Pazi): (He is Maktir the Chovah first,) when he is Maktir the Nedavah he stipulates that if all of it was Chovah, it is (not l'Shem Kometz, rather,) l'Shem Etzim (like burning wood on the Mizbe'ach, i.e. not an obligatory Avodah) - this is like R. Eliezer;
1. (Beraisa - R. Eliezer): "L'Re'ach Nicho'ach" - you may not offer (Chametz or honey (i.e. any sweet derivative of fruit)) on the Mizbe'ach to fulfill Hash-m's will, but they may be burned l'Shem Etzim.
(o) Question (Rav Acha brei d'Rava): Perhaps all permit mixing Chovah with Nedavah, and they argue about R. Eliezer's law - Chachamim agree with it, Rebbi does not!
(p) Answer (Rav Ashi): If Rebbi permitted mixing Chovah with Nedavah, just he disagreed with R. Eliezer's law, it would suffice to offer two Menachos:
1. He would put one Isaron in one Kli (Nedavah) and 60 in the other Kli (for the vow - the excess over the vow is also Nedavah), touch them together, and take Kemitzah from each.
(q) Answer #3 (to question (f) - Rava): All permit mixing Chovah with Nedavah, all agree to R. Eliezer's law, they argue like R. Eliezer ben Yakov and Chachamim:
1. (Mishnah): One Log of oil is used for each Log of Minchas Nedavah, 60 Lugim for 60 Esronim;
2. R. Eliezer ben Yakov says, only one Log is used, even for 60 Esronim - "L'Minchah v'Log Shamen".
3. Chachamim (that argue with Rebbi) hold like Chachamim of this Mishnah - in any case, 60 Lugim are used for 60 Esronim, whether it is all Chovah or partially Nedavah;
4. Rebbi holds like R. Eliezer - we cannot bring one Minchah of 60 Esronim, for we do not know whether it is all Chovah (and requires only one Lug) or is partially Nedavah (and requires two Lugim.)
(r) Answer #4 (Rav Ashi): They argue whether or not one who brought a larger Minchah than he vowed was Yotzei (fulfilled his obligation) - Chachamim hold that he was, Rebbi holds that he was not.
(s) Question: They already argued about this elsewhere!
1. (Mishnah): If one vowed to bring a small Zevach and brought a big Zevach, he was Yotzei;
2. Rebbi says, he was not.
(t) Answer: The argument must be taught in both cases:
1. If we only taught regarding Menachos, one might have thought that Chachamim say that he was Yotzei because in any case one Kometz is offered, but regarding Zevachim, a bigger animal has more Eimurim, all agree that he was not Yotzei;
2. If we only taught regarding Zevachim, one might have thought that Rebbi argues there because a bigger animal has more Eimurim, but he agrees regarding Menachos, for in any case one Kometz is offered.
3) MINIMAL "NEDAVOS"
(a) (Mishnah): If one said 'Alai Etzim', he must bring at least two big logs;
(b) If he vowed to bring Levonah, he must bring at least a Kometz.
(c) The Shi'ur of a Kometz applies to five things:
1. One who vows to bring Levonah must bring at least a Kometz;
2. One who brings Minchas Nedavah must bring a Kometz of Levonah;
3. One who offers a Kometz outside the Mikdash is liable;
4. Each of the two Bazichim (spoons of Levonah brought with Lechem ha'Panim) must have a Kometz. (This counts as two of the five things.)
(d) If one said 'Alai Zahav', he must bring at least a gold Dinar;
(e) If one said 'Alai Kesef', he must bring at least a silver Dinar;
(f) If one said 'Alai Nechoshes', he must bring copper worth a silver Ma'ah (a sixth of a Dinar.)
(g) If he says 'I specified how much I will bring, but I do not remember how much', he must bring an amount that he is sure that he did not vow more than this.
(h) (Gemara - Beraisa): "Korban" - this teaches that one may bring a Nedavah of wood.
1. One must bring at least two large logs - "Veha'Goralos Hipalnu Al Korban ha'Etzim" (Tosfos - if he vowed to bring 'Etzim', but if he vowed to bring 'Etz', one log suffices.)
2. Rebbi says, wood is considered a Korban, it requires salt and Hagashah (for it is Hukash to Minchah.)
3. (Rava): According to Rebbi, wood requires Kemitzah.
4. (Rav Papa): According to Rebbi, wood requires (must be burned on) other wood.
(i) (Mishnah): If he vowed to bring Levonah, he must bring at least a Kometz.
(j) Question: What is the source of this?
(k) Answer: "V'Herim Mimenu b'Kumtzo mi'Soles ha'Minchah umi'Shmanah v"Es Kol ha'Levonah" - the verse equates Levonah to the part taken from the Minchah, i.e. a Kometz.
(l) (Beraisa): If one said 'Alai l'Mizbe'ach', he must bring Levonah, for this is the only thing that is entirely for the Mizbe'ach;
1. If he says 'I specified what I will bring, but I do not remember what', he must bring everything offered on the Mizbe'ach.
(m) Question: There are other things entirely for the Mizbe'ach, e.g. an Olah!
(n) Answer: Its skin is given to Kohanim.
(o) Question: Olas ha'Of is entirely for the Mizbe'ach!
(p) Answer: Its innards and feathers are removed (and burned in Beis ha'Deshen.)
(q) Question: Nesachim are entirely for the Mizbe'ach!
(r) Answer: They are poured through the Shitim (they are not consumed by the Mizbe'ach.)
(s) Question: Minchas Nesachim is entirely consumed by the Mizbe'ach!
(t) Answer: Some Menachos are (mostly) eaten by Kohanim, presumably the one who vowed intended for something that is always Kalil.

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