Chesed Club World Wide Center & Discussion Groups
Kitzurdaf

Back

08-02-2011
Title:
Chulin 2 - WHO MAY SLAUGHTER

Message:
1) WHO MAY SLAUGHTER

(a) (Mishnah): All (may) slaughter, and the slaughter is Kosher, except for a deaf person, lunatic or minor, lest they slaughter it improperly;
(b) Any of them that slaughtered while others looked on, the slaughter is Kosher.
(c) (Gemara) Question: 'All (may) slaughter' - this connotes, l'Chatchilah; 'and the slaughter is Kosher' - this connotes, b'Di'avad!
1. Question #1 (Rav Acha brei d'Rava): Does the language 'All' always connote l'Chatchilah?
i. (Mishnah): All make Temurah (declare a Chulin animal to be in place of a sacrifice), both men and women.
ii. This is not l'Chatchilah - "He will not switch it"
2. Answer (Rav Ashi): There, the Mishnah clarifies itself - 'Not that it is permitted to make Temurah, but that if one did, the Chulin animal becomes Hekdesh, and the person gets 40 lashes'.
3. Question #2 (Rav Acha brei d'Rava - Mishnah): All (may) pledge a person's Erech (a value based on his age and gender) to Hekdesh, and others (may) pledge them, all pledge a person's value (as a slave) to Hekdesh, and other are pledge them.
i. This is not l'Chatchilah - "If you will refrain from vowing, you will not bear sin"
ii. (Beraisa - R. Meir): "It is better that you should not vow, than to vow and not fulfill"? - better than either (vowing and not fulfilling, or vowing and fulfilling) is not to vow at all;
iii. R. Yehudah says, the best is to vow and fulfill.
iv. Even R. Yehudah only allows declaring an animal Hekdesh - but not to obligate oneself (to bring an animal - nor to pledge to Hekdesh, for the same concern, lest he be unable to fulfill)!
2b---------------------------------------2b

4. Counter-question #1 (Rav Ashi): Can you say that whenever the Mishnah says 'All', it is b'Di'avad?
i. (Mishnah): 'All are obligated in the Mitzvah of Sukah';
ii. (Mishnah): 'All are obligated in the Mitzvah of Tzitzis'.
5. Answer (Rav Acha): I agree, when it says 'All are obligated', it is l'Chatchilah - but otherwise, 'all' connotes b'Di'avad.
6. Counter-question #2 (Rav Ashi - Mishnah): 'All press on the neck of their sacrifice, both men and women'.
i. This is l'Chatchilah - "He will press his hand, and the sacrifice will be acceptable"
7. Answer (Rav Acha): I agree, the language 'All' may be l'Chatchilah - but it can also be b'Di'avad.
i. My question was - why assume that in our Mishnah, it means l'Chatchilah, to ask a question - perhaps it means b'Di'avad, and there is no difficulty!
8. Answer (to Question #2 - Rav Ashi): The Mishnah continues; 'and the slaughter is Kosher' - b'Di'avad- if 'all slaughter' also means b'Di'avad, why does the Mishnah use a second language of b'Di'avad?
2) A "TAMEI" PERSON THAT SLAUGHTERS
(a) Answer #1 (to Question 1:c - Rabah bar Ula): The Mishnah teaches: 'All may slaughter' - even a Tamei person may slaughter Chulin ...
1. Interjection: This is obvious!
2. Answer: He may slaughter Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh (treated as Kodshim) - Rabah bar Ula holds, Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh has the law of Kodshim.
i. He uses a long knife, so he should not touch the animal (after the slaughter, when it is susceptible to Tum'ah).
(b) (Continuation of Rabah bar Ula's answer): A Tamei person should not slaughter Kodshim, lest he touch the animal; if he slaughtered, and is sure that he did not touch, 'the slaughter is Kosher';
1. 'Except for a deaf person, lunatic or minor' - if they slaughtered even a Chulin animal, it is forbidden, lest they pause during the slaughter, press (the knife, instead of cutting), or do Chaladah (slaughter when the knife is covered).
(c) Question: '*Any of them* that slaughtered while others looked on, the slaughter is Kosher' - to whom does this refer?
1. Suggestion: If it refers to a deaf person, lunatic or minor - they were just mentioned, the Mishnah should have said 'If they', not 'Any of them'!
(d) Answer #1: Rather, it refers to a Tamei person that slaughtered a Chulin animal.
1. Objection: But the beginning of the Mishnah permits that l'Chatchilah!
(e) Answer #2: Rather, it refers to a Tamei person that slaughtered Kodshim.
(f) Question: Why must others look on - we said that it suffices that he is sure that he did not touch!
(g) Answer: The case is, he is not here to ask him whether he touched.
(h) Question: But a different Mishnah teaches that if a Tamei person slaughtered Kodshim, it is Kosher!
1. (Mishnah): If a Pasul (anyone disqualified from Avodah) slaughtered a Korban, it is Kosher, since slaughter may be done by a Zar (non-Kohen), woman, slave, or Tamei person;
i. This applies even to Kodshei Kodoshim, on condition that (if he is Tamei) he did not touch the animal.
(i) Answer #1: Primarily, our Mishnah teaches this law; that Mishnah teaches all Pesulim for Avodah, so it repeated the law of a Tamei that slaughtered a Korban.
(j) Answer #2: Primarily, that Mishnah teaches this law; our Mishnah, since it teaches about a Tamei that slaughters Chulin, also teaches about when he slaughters Kodshim.
(k) Question: What kind of Tamei person can slaughter Kodshim?
1. Suggestion: If he is Tamei Mes (from a corpse) - any vessel he touches becomes Tamei, it makes the animal Tamei!
(l) Answer #1: Rather, he became Tamei through a rodent (so he does not Metamei vessels).
(m) Answer #2: Really, he is Tamei Mes - he slaughtered with a sharp reed (it is not a vessel, it cannot become Tamei).
1. (Beraisa): One may slaughter with anything - with a rock, or glass, or a reed.

Back