Chesed Club World Wide Center & Discussion Groups




(a) (Continuation of Beraisa - R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon): "Like the law" refers to the law of a Chatas ha'Of.
1. Just like he holds the head and body of a Chatas and sprinkles blood, he does the same with an Olah.
i. Question: What does that mean?
ii. Answer: Just like regarding Chatas ha'Of, when he holds the head, he sprinkles blood with the body (which is attached), also regarding Olas ha'Of.
2. Suggestion: Just like in Chatas ha'Of they are attached by a full Siman, also in Olas ha'Of!
3. Rejection: "He will offer *it*" (Olas ha'Of is unlike Chatas ha'Of).
(b) Question: Since Chachamim (the first Tana, bottom of 21A) learn from "U'Malak...v'Hiktir" that the head and body of Olas ha'Of are separated, why do they need "And he will offer *it*" (to teach that it is unlike Chatas ha'Of)?
(c) Answer: If not for "And he will offer *it*", we would have learned that Olas ha'Of is like Chatas ha'Of;
1. "U'Malak...v'Hiktir" would teach that just like it is burned on top of the Mizbe'ach, also Melikah is done there.
2. Since it says "And he will offer *it*", we learn both (separation and Melikah on top of the Mizbe'ach).
(d) Question: What is the source that Chatas Behemah cannot come from Ma'aser money?
(e) Answer (Rav Chisda): "Aharon will offer *his* Chatas" - his, and not of the congregation; his, and not from Ma'aser money.
(f) Question: Chachamim learn that Olas ha'Of is offered by day from "like the law" - why don't they learn from "On the day He commanded"?
(g) Answer: Really, they do; there was no need for the Beraisa to say that Chachamim (could) learn from "like the law".
(h) Question: Chachamim learn that Olas ha'Of is offered with the right hand from "like the law" - why don't they learn like Rabah bar bar Chanah?
1. (Rabah bar bar Chanah): Wherever the Torah says "finger" or "Kohen", the right hand is required.
(i) Answer: They hold like R. Shimon, who says that '"finger" teaches that the right hand is required, but "Kohen" does not (it does not say 'finger' regarding Olas ha'Of).
(j) Question: From where do Chachamim and R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon learn that Melikah of an Olah is on back of the neck?
(k) Answer: They learn a Gezeirah Shavah "Melikah-Melikah".
(a) (Mishnah): The (age of) pigeons acceptable as Korbanos are Pesulim among doves; the doves acceptable as Korbanos are Pesulim among pigeons.
(b) When they start to get yellow, both species are Pesulim.
(c) (Gemara - Beraisa): Adult pigeons are Kesherim, young pigeons are not; young doves are Kesherim, old doves are not;
1. The Kosher age of pigeons is Pasul regarding doves; the Kosher age of doves is Pasul regarding pigeons.
(d) (Beraisa): Adult pigeons are Kesherim, not young ones.
1. Suggestion: We should learn a Kal va'Chomer - adult doves are Pesulim, but young ones are Kesherim - regarding pigeons, adults are Kesherim, all the more so young ones!

2. Rejection: "Pigeons" - adults, not young ones.
(e) (Continuation of Beraisa): Young doves are Kesherim, not old ones.
1. Suggestion: We should learn a Kal va'Chomer - young pigeons are Pesulim, but old ones are Kesherim- regarding doves, young ones are Kesherim, all the more so adults!
2. Rejection: "Benei Yonah (children of doves)" - young ones, not adults.
(f) Question: How does this disprove the Kal va'Chomer?
(g) Answer (Rava): If both were Kesherim, at least once the Torah should have written 'children of pigeons' or 'doves' (and not "children of doves").
(h) Question: Regarding doves, the Torah says "children of doves", so only young ones are Kesherim; by pigeons, young and old should be Kesherim!
(i) Answer: Pigeons are like doves - just like only young doves are Kesherim, only old pigeons are Kesherim.
(j) (Beraisa): One might have thought, all pigeons and doves are Kesherim - "From the pigeons", not any pigeon; "From the children of doves", and not any doves.
1. These exclude the beginning of yellowness (of the feathers), which is Pasul among both.
(k) Question: What is the minimal age of pigeons to be Kesherim?
(l) Answer: When their feathers start to turn gold.
(m) Question: At what age do doves become Pesulim?
(n) Answer: When they start to turn yellow.
(o) (Yakov Karchah - Beraisa): The minimal age of doves to be Kesherim is when Ya'ala'u.
1. (Yakov Karchah): "His chicks Ya'ala'u blood" - we see, Ya'ala'u means when the bird bleeds upon plucking a feather.
(a) Question (R. Zeira): Reuven said 'It is Alai (encumbent upon me) to bring an Olah, a pigeon or dove'; he brought a bird at the beginning of yellowing of each species - did he fulfill his vow?
1. Are we in doubt (if this age is considered young or old), and he fulfilled his vow with one or the other?
2. Or, is this an intermediate age which is Pasul for both?