Chesed Club World Wide Center & Discussion Groups


Chulin 59 - FOODS THAT CAN KILL (cont.)


(a) (Rav Yehudah): If one eats three measures of Chiltis before his meal, his skin will come off.
1. R. Avahu: I ate one measure - had I not been in water, my skin would have come off - "Chachmah gives life to Chachamim".
(b) (Rav Yosef): Ingesting the wrong combination of eggs, nuts, pits and honey in summer (before his meal) can uproot the heart.
(c) A deer whose hind legs were cut was brought before the Reish Galusa. Rav checked the juncture of the sinews and ruled that it is Kosher; he planned to eat from it lightly roasted.
1. Shmuel: You should be concerned, perhaps a snake bit it (where the legs were cut off)!
2. Rav: How can we check for this?
3. Shmuel instructed to put it in the oven (to fully roast it); it started crumbling.
i. Shmuel: "No mishap will occur to a Tzadik."
ii. Rav: "No secret is withheld from you."
(a) (Mishnah): The Torah gives Simanim that show which animals and Chayos are Tahor, but does not give Simanim for birds;
1. Chachamim gave Simanim for birds - any bird that is Dores is Tamei.
2. (Here, Dores does *not* mean to poison through scratching. Rashi - it holds its food in its claws while eating; R. Tam (61A) - it eats its prey before it dies.)
3. If a bird has an extra toe, and a crop, and the stomach peels off, it is Tahor.
i. R. Eliezer b'Rebbi Tzadok says, any bird that divides its claws (when perching on a stick) is Tamei.
(b) If a Chagav (grasshopper or locust) has four legs and two extra forelegs, and four wings that cover the majority (of the body), it is Kosher;
1. R. Yosi says, it must be called Chagav.
(c) Fish that have Snapir and Kaskeses are Kosher;
(d) R. Yehudah says, it must have two Kaskesin and one Snapir.
1. Kaskeses are fixed in the body (scales); Snapir is what it uses to swim (fin.)
(e) (Gemara - Beraisa): These are the Simanim of Tahor animals: "The hooves are split..." - any animal that chews the cud surely has no upper teeth, and is Tahor.
(f) Objection: This is not always true - a camel chews the cud and has no upper teeth, but it is Tamei!
(g) Answer #1: A camel has two upper teeth (or tooth-like protrusions.) (Tosfos - this answer is incomplete, it does not answer for rabbits (the Gemara later asks about rabbits). Rashba - we currently understand the Beraisa to say 'Any animal that chews the cud *and* has no upper teeth is Tahor', this answer is complete.)
1. Objection #1: But a young camel (chews the cud and) does not have any upper teeth (and is Tamei)!
2. Objection #2: But rabbits and Shafanim chew the cud, have upper teeth and are Teme'im! (Some identify Shafan with a hare, rock-badger, or a kind of woodchuck.)
3. Objection #3: The Torah does not say that Taharah depends on upper teeth!
(h) Answer #2 (to all questions): The Beraisa means, if an animal has no upper teeth, it surely chews the cud and has split hooves and is Tahor.
(i) Question: Why must we look for teeth to know about the hooves - one can see whether or not the hooves are split!
(j) Answer: This rule is needed when the hooves are cut off; it suffices to check the mouth.
1. (Rav Chisda): If one finds an animal in the wilderness whose hooves are cut off, he checks the mouth; if there are upper teeth, it is Tamei; if not, it is Tahor;
i. He may rely on this only if he knows that the animal is not a camel.
ii. Question: Camels have two upper teeth, the rule works for camels!
iii. Correction: Rather, he must know that it is not a young camel.
iv. Question: Just like young camels are exceptions to the rule, perhaps there are more exceptions!
v. Answer (Beraisa - Tana d'Vei R. Yishmael): "The camel, for it chews the cud" - the Torah lists the only Tamei animals that chew the cud, all others that chew the cud are Tehorim.
vi. (Chazal knew that any animal without upper teeth chews the cud. Seemingly, we should be concerned for exceptions to this rule, for the Torah did not teach it! Perhaps it is impossible to chew food sufficiently without upper teeth, unless it has been partially digested in a stomach.)
(k) (Rav Chisda): If one finds an animal on the road whose mouth is cut off, he checks the hooves:
1. If they are split, it is Tahor; if not, it is Tamei;
2. He may only rely on this if he knows that the animal is not a pig.
3. Question: Just like pigs are exceptions, perhaps there are more exceptions!
4. Answer (Beraisa - Tana d'Vei R. Yishmael): "The pig, for it has split hooves" - the Torah teaches that pigs are the only Tamei animals with split hooves.
(l) (Rav Chisda): If one finds an animal in the wilderness whose hooves and mouth are cut off, he checks the skin:
1. If it tears lengthwise and widthwise, it is Tahor; if not, it is Tamei;
2. He may only rely on this if he knows that the animal is not an Arod (wild ass?).
3. Question: Just like the Arod is an exception, perhaps there are more exceptions!
4. Answer: We have a tradition from Moshe from Sinai that there are no other exceptions.
(m) Question: Where does he check the skin?
(n) Answer (Abaye): He checks under the tailbone.
(a) (Beraisa): These are the Simanim of Chayos...
(b) (Interjection): Chayos have the same Simanim (of Taharah) like domestic animals!
(c) Answer (R. Zeira): The Beraisa gives the Simanim to distinguish Chayos from Behemos - the difference is, Chelev of Chayos is permitted.

(d) (Beraisa): These are the Simanim of Chayos, whose Chelev is permitted - any animal with horns and hooves;
1. R. Dosa says, it suffices if it has horns; having hooves is not a sufficient Siman by itself.
2. A Keresh (giraffe?), even though it only has one horn, (its Chelev) is permitted.
(e) Question: The rule is not reliable - goats have horns and hooves, but their Chelev is forbidden!
(f) Answer: The horns must grow in shells (to be a Siman.)
(g) Question: This is not true - an ox has shelled horns, but its Chelev is forbidden!
(h) Answer: Having *grooved* horns is a Siman.
(i) Question: Goats have grooved horns, but their Chelev is forbidden!
(j) Answer: The horns must branch out (Tosfos - they must be straight, but bent at the end.)
(k) Objection: A deer is a Chayah, its horns are not like this!
(l) Answer: Having such horns is a sure Siman that it is a Chayah; if not, the horns must be shelled, grooved and pointed;
1. The grooves must be very close to each other.
2. The argument regarding goats of Karkuz depended on this.
(m) The Reish Galusa had a goat of Karkuz; he stored up its Chelev.
1. Rav Achai: The Chelev is forbidden.
2. Rav Shmuel brei d'R. Avahu (permitted it and) ate some of the Chelev.
3. (Chachamim of Eretz Yisrael): The Halachah follows Rav Shmuel; still, out of respect for Rav Achai, one should not permit the Chelev in front of Rav Achai.
(n) (Beraisa): Even though a Keresh has one horn, its Chelev is permitted.
(a) (Rav Yehudah): A Keresh is the deer of Bei Ilai; Tigras is the lion of Bei Ilai.
(b) (Rav Kahana): There are nine Amos between the sides of a lion of Bei Ilai.
(c) (Rav Yosef): A deer of Bei Ilai is 16 Amos long.
1. Kaiser: Your G-d is compared to a lion - but valorous men can kill lions!
2. R. Yehoshua ben Chananyah: He is compared to a lion of Bei Ilai.
3. The Kaiser insisted on seeing this lion, above R. Yehoshua's protests. R. Yehoshua asked Hash-m to bring the lion.
4. When the lion was 400 Parsah away, it roared; all the pregnant women miscarried, and the walls fell down. When the lion was 300 Parsah away, it roared; people's teeth fell out, and the Kaiser fell off his chair. He asked R. Yehoshua to ask Hash-m that the lion should return to its place.