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08-30-2011
Title:
Chulin 85 - WHO HAS THE MITZVAH OF

Message:
1) WHO HAS THE MITZVAH OF "SHOFAR"?

(e) (Beraisa - Chachamim): Teki'as Shofar in the Gevulim disproves this - we do not blow on Shabbos even for a Vadai (definite) Mitzvah, but we do blow on Yom Tov for a Safek!
1. Question: What is the case of a Safek Mitzvah of Shofar?
i. Suggestion: We are not sure which day is (mid'Oraisa) Rosh Hashanah.
ii. Rejection: Teki'as Shofar overrides Vadai Yom Tov - all the more so, it overrides Safek Yom Tov!
2. Answer: Rather, the Safek is a Tumtum (Safek male, perhaps (s)he is a female, and exempt )
3. According to R. Yosi, this is not a question, for he permits Teki'as Shofar (and all other time-bound Mitzvos) to women:
i. (Beraisa): Benei Yisrael do Semichah (to press on the neck of a Korban), Benos Yisrael do not;
ii. R. Yosi and R. Shimon say, Benos Yisrael may do Semichah if they want.
(f) Question (Ravina): Even though Chachamim forbid women to sound a Shofar on Yom Tov, their question is invalid!
1. Teki'as Shofar overrides Shabbos in the Mikdash (therefore, a Safek case overrides Yom Tov) - we cannot learn to Kisuy ha'Dam, for this never overrides Shabbos!
(g) Beraisa (R. Elazar ha'Hakapar Beribi): Circumcise does not apply on Yom Tov night...
(h) Question: This implies that circumcision applies on other nights!
(i) Correction: Rather, R. Elazar asks, circumcision applies only during the day, but Kisuy is also at night, so one cannot learn from circumcision!
1. (R. Aba): R. Chiya had no question against R. Yosi's Kal va'Chomer, until he heard R. Elazar ha'Hakapar's question.
2) SLAUGHTER THAT DOES NOT PERMIT THE MEAT
(a) (Mishnah - R. Meir): The Mitzvah to cover the blood applies even in the following cases:
1. The animal was found to be Treifah; it was slaughtered for idolatry; Chulin b'Azarah (Chulin slaughtered in the Mikdash); Shechutei Chutz; the animal had been sentenced to be stoned (e.g. for killing a person);
(b) Chachamim say, there is no Mitzvah in these cases.
(c) Kisuy does not apply if the animal became a Nevelah, or if Nechirah or Akirah was done (the Simanim were torn or uprooted, not slaughtered.)
(d) (Gemara - R. Chiya bar Aba): Regarding Oso v'Es Beno, Rebbi holds like R. Meir (that slaughter that does not permit the meat is considered slaughter), therefore the Mishnah attributes this opinion to 'Chachamim';
1. Regarding Kisuy ha'Dam, Rebbi holds like R. Shimon (that invalid slaughter is not considered slaughter), therefore the Mishnah attributes this opinion to 'Chachamim'.
(e) Question: What is R. Meir's reason regarding Oso v'Es Beno?
(f) Answer (R. Yehoshua ben Levi): He learns a Gezerah Shavah "Shechitah-Shechitah" from Shechutei Chutz - just like there, it is considered slaughter (even though the animal is forbidden), also regarding Oso v'Es Beno.
(g) Question: What is R. Shimon's reason regarding Oso v'Es Beno?
(h) Answer (R. Mani bar Patish): He learns a Gezerah Shavah from "Tavo'ach Tevach" (written concerning the meal prepared for Yosef's brothers) - Kisuy applies only for such a slaughter, i.e. one that permits the meat.
(i) Question: Why does R. Meir argue?
(j) Answer: (Regarding Oso v'Es Beno it says "Sishchatu" -) it is better to learn from (another form of) the same word, not from a different word ('Tevichah'.)
(k) Question: But a Gezerah Shavah may be learned from a different word!
1. (Beraisa - Tana d'Vei R. Yishmael): "V'Shav ha'Kohen u'Va ha'Kohen" - this Gezerah Shavah teaches that the law (of a house with Tzara'as) when the Kohen (first) returns is the same like when he comes (another week later.)
(l) Answer: A Gezerah Shavah may be learned from a different word only if it cannot be learned from the same word - here, it can be learned from the same word.
(m) Question: Why doesn't R. Shimon learn like R. Meir, from Shechutei Chutz?
(n) Answer: It is better to learn Chulin from Chulin than from Kodshim.
1. R. Meir argues, because Oso v'Es Beno also applies to Kodshim!
2. This is why Rebbi holds like R. Meir regarding Oso v'Es Beno.
(o) Question: Why is R. Meir's reason regarding Kisuy ha'Dam?
(p) Answer (Reish Lakish): He learns a Gezerah Shavah "Shefichah-Shefichah" from Shechutei Chutz - just like there, it is considered slaughter (even though the animal is forbidden), also regarding Kisuy.
1. R. Shimon argues, because it says "That will be eaten".
2. R. Meir says, this teaches that Kisuy does not apply to Tamei birds.
3. R. Shimon counters, just like "That will be eaten" excludes Tamei birds, it also excludes Treifah birds (and all other invalid slaughters)!
4. This is why Rebbi holds like R. Shimon regarding Kisuy ha'Dam.
85b---------------------------------------85b
3) WHERE R. MEIR AND R. SHIMON AGREE

(a) (R. Aba): R. Meir agrees that an invalid slaughter does not permit the meat; R. Shimon agrees that an invalid slaughter is Metaher (from Tum'as Nevelah.)
(b) Question: Obviously, slaughter of a Treifah does not permit the meat!
(c) Answer: R. Aba must teach that slaughter of a Treifah does not permit a living nine-month (i.e. viable) fetus inside.
1. One might have thought, since R. Meir considers Pasul slaughter to be slaughter, it permits the fetus - R. Aba teaches, this is not so.
(d) Question: But R. Meir requires slaughter even for a Ben Paku'ah (found inside a Kosher slaughtered mother!)
(e) Answer: Indeed, the law is obvious according to R. Meir; R. Aba teaches that Rebbi admits in this case.
1. Rebbi considers Pasul slaughter to be slaughter, like R. Meir; he holds like Chachamim that Kosher slaughter is Metaher (and permits) a Ben Paku'ah inside.
2. One might have thought, slaughter of the mother permits the child, even if the mother is Treifah - R. Aba teaches, this is not so.
(f) (R. Aba): R. Shimon admits, Pasul slaughter is Metaher from Tum'as Neveilah.
(g) Question: This is obvious!
1. (Rav Yehudah): "When will die *from* an animal" - some animals convey Tum'ah (as a Nevelah), others do not;
2. A slaughtered Treifah does not convey Tum'ah.
(h) Answer: R. Aba must teach about a Chulin Treifah slaughtered in the Mikdash.
1. (Beraisa - R. Shimon): If a Chulin Treifah was slaughtered in the Mikdash, it is permitted to benefit from the carcass;
2. Chachamim say, it is forbidden.
3. One might have thought, since Chachamim permit benefit from the carcass, it is as if it was not slaughtered at all - R. Aba teaches, this is not so.
(i) Question (Rav Papa): May we infer that R. Shimon forbids Chulin b'Azarah mid'Oraisa?
(j) Answer (Abaye): Yes!
1. (Mishnah - R. Shimon): Chulin b'Azarah Behemos must be burned; the same applies to Chayos.
i. If a Behemah becomes forbidden mid'Oraisa it is reasonable to decree the same for a Chayah. (Rashi - really, a Chayah also becomes forbidden mid'Oraisa.)
ii. But if a Chulin Behemah is forbidden only mid'Rabanan, this would be a decree, lest people will eat Kodshim outside;
iii. It is unreasonable to forbid a Chayah (on account of a Behemah), that is a decree on account of a decree!
4) SLAUGHTER FOR THE SAKE OF THE BLOOD
(a) A moth fell into R. Chiya's flax (which was soaking in water); he wanted to chase it out with blood; Rebbi told him to slaughter a bird over the water.
(b) Question (Beraisa): If one slaughters (a bird or Chayah) only for the sake of the blood, he must cover the blood;
1. The only solution is to do Nechirah or Akirah (instead of slaughter.)
(c) Version #1 (Rav Dimi): Rebbi told him to make the bird a Treifah before slaughtering it.
(d) Version #2 (Rav Dimi): Rebbi told him to do Nechirah.
(e) Question: According to Version #1, why didn't he say to do Nechirah?
1. Suggestion: Rebbi holds that the Torah does not require slaughter of birds, Nechirah suffices (so Nechirah also obligates Kisuy!)
2. Rejection (Beraisa - Rebbi): "As I commanded you" - this teaches that Moshe received laws of slaughtering the Veshet, the Kaneh, the majority of one Siman of a bird, the majority of both Simanim of an animal.
(f) Answer: Rebbi taught a bigger Chidush:
1. One might have thought, Nechirah is exempt from Kisuy ha'Dam, for it is not slaughter, but one must cover the blood of a slaughtered Treifah - he teaches that this is not so;
2. This is like R. Chiya bar Aba (regarding Kisuy, Rebbi holds like R. Shimon, that invalid slaughter is not considered slaughter.)

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