Chesed Club World Wide Center & Discussion Groups




(a) Question: According to Version #2, why didn't he say to make it Treifah and then slaughter it?
1. Suggestion: Rebbi holds that invalid slaughter is considered slaughter.
2. Rejection (R. Chiya bar Aba): Regarding Kisuy ha'Dam, Rebbi does not consider invalid slaughter to be slaughter, so the Mishnah attributes this opinion to Chachamim.
(b) Answer: Rebbi taught a bigger Chidush.
1. Had he said to make it Treifah, one might have thought that a slaughtered Treifah is exempt from Kisuy, for Pasul slaughter is not slaughter, but one must cover Dam Nechirah (because the Torah does not require slaughter of birds, Nechirah suffices);
2. Rebbi teaches, this is not so - "As I commanded you".
(a) Question: How could a moth fall in R. Chiya's flax?!
1. (Ravin bar Aba): Ominous signs plagued Eretz Yisrael after the Churban - shooting stars, earthquakes, raging winds, thunder, spoiling of wine, flax being stricken;
2. These ended after Tzadikim came to Eretz Yisrael;
3. Rabanan attributed this to R. Chiya and his sons.
(b) Answer: Their merit helps the rest of the world, not themselves.
1. (Rav Yehudah): Every day, a voice from Heaven announces that the entire world is fed in the merit of R. Chanina ben Dosa, and (some explain - because) R. Chanina subsists on one Kav of dates for an entire week!
(a) (Mishnah): If a Cheresh, Shoteh or Katan slaughtered while others looked on, the onlookers must cover the blood;
1. If he slaughtered unsupervised, Kisuy need not be done.
(b) Similarly, if a Cheresh, Shoteh or Katan slaughtered while others looked on, the mother or child of the animal may not be slaughtered that same day;
(c) If he slaughtered unsupervised:
1. R. Meir permits slaughtering the mother or child the same day, Chachamim forbid this;
2. Chachamim agree that if one slaughtered the mother or child, he is not lashed.
(d) (Gemara) Question: Why do Chachamim argue only in the Seifa?
(e) Answer #1: In the Reisha, if we obligate people to cover the blood, people will think that the slaughter was valid, they might come to eat the meat.
1. Question: The same concern applies in the Seifa - since it is forbidden to slaughter the mother or child the same day, people will think that the first slaughter was valid!
2. Answer: No, people will think that the owner of the mother or child did not want to eat meat that day.
3. Question: Likewise, we could obligate onlookers to cover the blood, and observers will think that the person just wants to clean the courtyard!
4. Answer #1: If the blood is in the wasteheap, people will know it is being covered for the Mitzvah (they will assume that the slaughter was valid)!
5. Answer #2: If one asks whether he should cover the blood (and is tol 'Yes'), he will think that the slaughter was valid!
6. Objection: The same applies to Oso v'Es Beno - one who asks whether he may slaughter the mother or child will think that the first slaughter was valid!
(f) Answer #2: Indeed, Chachamim argue also in the Reisha; they allowed R. Meir to teach both cases before they argued with on him.
(g) Question: We understand, Chachamim are stringent in both cases (because they are unsure);
1. What is R. Meir's reason?
2. Answer (R. Yakov): R. Meir considers the slaughter of a Cheresh, Shoteh or Katan to be Nevelah.
3. Question: Why is this?
4. Answer: Most of the time, they slaughter improperly.
(h) Question (Rav Papa): Why must we say that they ruin most slaughters - even if they ruin a minority, R. Meir is concerned for a minority!
1. We would join the minority of Pasul slaughters to the Chazakah that the animal is forbidden (Rashi - Ever Min ha'Chai; Tosfos - it *was* not slaughtered, perhaps it still has not had proper slaughter), and we can no longer rely on the majority of valid slaughters!
2. (Mishnah - R. Meir): If a child is next to a dough, holding a piece of dough, the (big) dough is Tahor;
i. Chachamim say it is Tamei, because most young children play and touch (Rashi - in the wasteheap, they become Teme'im from Sheratzim; surely, the child touched the dough to take a piece. Tosfos - all children are (Muchzakim to be) Teme'im (Nidos hug them), most play with dough, he probably touched it himself, we do not rely on the minority chance that a Tahor person gave a piece to him.)
3. Question: What is R. Meir's reason?
4. Answer: Most children touch, a minority do not; the dough has Chezkas Taharah;

i. We combine the minority of children that don't touch with the Chazakah, this weakens the majority that touch. (We are left with a doubt - this is a case of Ein Da'as Lish'ol (we cannot ask the child what happened, for he is too young), it is Tahor even in Reshus ha'Rabim.)
(i) Answer: R. Meir is concerned for a minority regarding Tum'ah, but he never said this to permit an Isur!
(j) Rebbi ruled like R. Meir; on another occasion, he ruled like Chachamim.
(k) Question: Which of these rulings came last (was his final ruling)?
(l) Answer: R. Elazar said that Rebbi ruled like R. Meir.
1. Question: But he also ruled like Chachamim!
2. Answer: R. Elazar only cited the ruling like R. Meir, for he knew that it was last.
(a) (Mishnah): If a man slaughtered 100 Chayos or 100 birds in one place, one Kisuy suffices for all of them;
(b) If he slaughtered a Chayah and bird in one place, he may cover them together;
(c) R. Yehudah says, he must cover the Chayah's blood before he slaughters the bird.
(d) (Gemara - Beraisa): "Chayah" denotes one animal or many; similarly, "Of".
1. From this we learn that one Kisuy suffices for many Chayos or birds;
2. R. Yehudah says, he must cover the Chayah's blood before he slaughters the bird - we learn this from "Chayah *O* Of".
3. Chachamim: But it says, "The soul of all life is in its blood"!
4. Question: What kind of response is this to R. Yehudah?
5. Answer: (The Beraisa is abbreviated); Chachamim first responded - "*O*" is needed to divide (Kisuy is required even if only a Chayah *or* bird is slaughtered);
i. R. Yehudah: It says "*Its* blood", to teach that the blood of even one of them must be covered.
ii. Chachamim: "Its blood" can connote the blood of more than one animal - "The soul of all life is in its blood".
(e) (R. Chanina): R. Yehudah agrees that one blessing suffices for Chayos and birds.
(f) Question (Ravina): Why is this different than the following episode?
1. Rav Bruna and Rav Chananel were eating; they asked Rav Yeiva Sava (who was serving them) to bring the wine for Birkas ha'Mazon. They reconsidered, and asked him to bring wine to drink.
2. Rav Yeiva: Rav taught, once one says 'Let us bless', he may not drink anymore (without blessing.)
i. Here also, once you cover the blood of the Chayah, another blessing is needed for Kisuy of whatever else you will slaughter!
(g) Answer (Rav Acha brei d'Rava): The cases are different!
1. One cannot drink while blessing, so intention to bless is an interruption;
2. One can slaughter and cover blood at the same time (with different hands), so covering is not an interruption.