Post A Note
Ask The Rabbi
Torah Study
Chat Room
World News
One Minute Joke
Famous Quotes

Free Advertisements

Hakol b'yday Shemayim Chutx m'Yiras Shemayim


Chesed Club World Wide Center & Discussion Groups

Username:   Password:

Create new account - Forgot username or password?


Back - Print Page



(a) Question: The Shirayim must be eaten, but oil was added before the Kometz was separated, nothing permits the addition (and it is mixed with the Shirayim)!
(b) Answer: We redeem the addition.
(c) Question: Where do we redeem it?
1. If we redeem it in the Azarah, it becomes Chulin b'Azarah;
2. If we redeem it outside the Azarah (and it was needed for Taharas Metzora, it is Kodshei Kodoshim), it becomes Pasul once it leaves the Azarah!
(d) Answer: Really, we redeem it in the Azarah - we did not enter Chulin into the Azarah, we entered and redeemed Kodshim, it became Chulin by itself!
(e) Question: But R. Shimon holds that one may not bring a Nedavah of oil! (Tosfos - presumably, he forbids it mid'Rabanan.)
(f) Answer: This is permitted for his Tikun.
(g) Question (Rav Huna bar Tachlifa): He should stipulate that if he does not need Asham Metzora, it is an Asham Taluy (instead of Shelamim, for then we do not waste Kodshim, it also is eaten only one day and a night!)
(h) Conclusion (Rav Huna): It must be that R. Shimon holds like Chachamim who argue with R. Eliezer, they say Asham Taluy is brought only when one truly suspects that he transgressed Kares, it may not be brought voluntarily!
(i) Rejection (Ravina): Such a stipulation is impossible - Asham Taluy must be in its second year, Asham Metzora must be in its first year!
(a) (Mishnah - R. Eliezer): If limbs of a Chatas were mixed with limbs of an Olah, we burn all of them on the Mizbe'ach - (even though it is forbidden Lehaktir limbs of a Chatas l'Shem Re'ach Nicho'ach,) we consider the Chatas to be like wood;
(b) Chachamim say, we wait for Ibur Tzurah (the next day, when they are Nosar), then all are burned in Beis ha'Sereifah (in the Mikdash.)
(c) (Gemara) Question: What is R. Eliezer's reason?
(d) Answer: "V'El ha'Mizbe'ach Lo Ya'alu l'Re'ach Nicho'ach" - you may not offer on the Mizbe'ach (anything the Torah is not Machshir for a Korban) for Re'ach Nicho'ach, but it may be burned l'Shem Etzim.
(e) Chachamim expound "Osam" - only Chametz and honey are forbidden l'Re'ach Nicho'ach and permitted l'Shem Etzim, other things are forbidden even l'Shem Etzim.
1. R. Eliezer expounds "Osam" - the ramp is considered like the Mizbe'ach only regarding (the prohibition of offering) Chametz and honey, not regarding other things.
2. Chachamim expound both from "Osam".
(f) Our Mishnah is unlike the following Tana.
1. (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): R. Eliezer and Chachamim agree that a mixture of Chatas and Olah limbs are offered;
2. They agree that if limbs of a Rove'a or Nirva were mixed with Olah limbs, they are not offered;
3. They argue about limbs of two Olos, one Tam and one Ba'al Mum, that were mixed together:
i. R. Eliezer says, we offer both - we consider the limbs of the Ba'al Mum to be like wood;
ii. Chachamim forbid offering either.
(g) Question: R. Eliezer forbids when a Rove'a or Nirva was mixed with a Kosher Korban, for the former may not be offered - also a Ba'al Mum may not be offered!

(h) Answer #1 (Rav Huna): The Mum discussed is Dukin (a film) in the eye; R. Eliezer holds like R. Akiva, who says that if such an animal was brought up the ramp, we offer it.
1. Question: R. Akiva only permits b'Diavad, if it was already brought up the ramp - l'Chatchilah, he does not permit offering it!
2. Answer (Rav Papa): Indeed, R. Eliezer and Chachamim argue in this case, if the animals were brought up the ramp.
(i) Objection: If so, they should argue about offering such a Ba'al Mum by itself!
(j) Answer #2: R. Eliezer learns from "Mum Bam" - it is forbidden to offer a Ba'al Mum by itself, it may be offered among a mixture;
1. Chachamim expound "Mum Bam" - it is forbidden to offer while the Mum is there, if the Mum goes away, it is permitted;
2. R. Eliezer learns both laws from this, for the Torah wrote "Bam" instead of "Bahem";
3. Chachamim say, this does not warrant learning a second law.
(k) Question: If so, why does R. Eliezer say that we consider the limbs of the Ba'al Mum to be like wood - the Torah absolutely permits it (in the mixture)!
(l) Answer: He addresses Chachamim according to their reasoning:
1. I absolutely permit it, I learn from "Mum Bam" - granted, you expound this differently, but you should agree that it may be offered like wood, just like (you agree regarding) limbs of a Chatas!
2. Chachamim forbid - limbs of a Chatas are not despised, limbs of a Ba'al Mum are despised.
(m) (Mishnah - R. Eliezer): If limbs of Olos Kesheros became mixed with limbs of a Ba'al Mum, if one of the heads was offered, we offer all of them; if the Kerayim (bottoms of the legs) of one of them were offered, we offer all of them;
(n) Chachamim say, even if all of them except for one were offered, the remaining one is burned in Beis ha'Sereifah.
(o) (Gemara -R. Elazar): R. Eliezer only permits offering two at a time (since one of them is surely Kosher, we assume that the other is also), not one at a time.
(p) Question (R. Yirmeyah - Mishnah - Chachamim): Even if all of them except for one were offered, the remaining one is burned in Beis ha'Sereifah (this implies that R. Eliezer argues, and permits offering the last one)!
(q) Answer (R. Yirmeyah bar Tachlifa): They mean, even if all of them except for one *pair* were offered, the remaining pair is burned in Beis ha'Sereifah.

| Chesed club | How to get started | Guide for the Shomrim | Short Prayer | In English |
| Short Prayer In Hebrew | 10 Rules Of Shmiras | Haloshon | Hebrew/English |

851 N.E. 182 Tr
N.M.B. Fl. 33162
305.491.1326 Cell
786.999.0282 Fax