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03-07-2011
Title:
Zevachim 84 - DO WE TAKE DOWN

Message:
1) DO WE TAKE DOWN "MENACHOS" AND "NESACHIM"?

(a) (Reish Lakish): All (Tana'im of our Mishnah) agree that if a Minchah (which is totally burned, e.g. Nedavah of Minchas Nesachim) is brought by itself, Lo Yered;
1. R. Akiva and R. Yosi ha'Galili say Yered;
(b) If such a Minchah is brought with a Korban:
1. R. Gamliel and R. Yehoshua say Lo Yered, the others say Yered;
(c) If a Nedavah of Nesachim (e.g. wine) is brought by itself:
1. R. Gamliel and R. Shimon say Lo Yered, the others say Yered;
(d) If Nesachim are brought with a Korban:
1. R. Gamliel says Lo Yered, the others say Yered.
(e) Objection: All this is obvious!
(f) Answer #1: The Chidush is (in the first clause,) Rava's law.
1. (Rava): One may bring Minchas Nesachim (by itself) every day.
(g) Objection: If so, Reish Lakish should have taught only Rava's law!
(h) Answer #2: The Chidush is (in the last clause,) regarding Menachos and Nesachim brought with a Korban, when they are brought on a later day;
1. "Minchasam...v'Niskeihem" - the Minchah and Nesech accompanying a Korban may be brought at night or the next day;
2. One might have thought, when they are brought later, it is as if they are brought by themselves, and R. Shimon would say Lo Yered - Reish Lakish teaches, this is not so.
2) WHICH "PESULIM" ARE "BA'KODESH"?
(a) (Mishnah): If Kodesh became Pasul on account of any of the following, if Alah, Lo Yered:
1. Linah (it was not offered within the proper time), Yotzei (it left its permitted place), Tamei, slaughter (with intent) Chutz li'Zmano or Chutz li'Mkomo, Pesulim did Kabalah and Zerikah (was done).
(b) R. Yehudah says, if it was slaughtered at night, or the blood spilled, or the blood left the Azarah, even if they were brought up, Yered;
(c) R. Shimon says, Lo Yered;
1. R. Shimon says, any Pesul b'Kodesh (Rashi - it became Pasul after it was brought into the Azarah; Tosfos - after slaughter, or perhaps after Kabalah) is accepted (Lo Yered).
(d) The following Pesulim are not b'Kodesh:
1. Rove'a and Nirva (an animal that had relations with a person), Muktzeh (an animal designated for idolatry), Ne'evad (one that was worshipped), Mechir (an animal sold for a dog), Esnan (wages of a harlot), Kilayim (a crossbreed), Treifah, Yotzei Dofen, and Ba'al Mum;
2. R. Akiva is Machshir a Ba'al Mum (Lo Yered).
3. R. Chanina Segan ha'Kohanim says, my father would push Ba'alei Mumim off the Mizbe'ach.
(e) Just like if Alu, Lo Yerdu, if they were taken down, Lo Ya'alu (they are not brought back up).
(f) If any of them (this will be explained) were brought up, Yerdu.
(g) Similarly, if an Olah was brought up alive, Yered;
1. If it was slaughtered on the Mizbe'ach, it is flayed and dissected on the Mizbe'ach.
(h) (Gemara - Beraisa - R. Yehudah): "Zos Hi...*ha*'Olah" - these are three exclusions, to exclude a Korban slaughtered at night, or the blood spilled, or the blood left the Azarah - even if Alu, Yered;
(i) R. Shimon says "Olah" - this only teaches that a Kosher Olah is offered;
1. Question: What is the source to include a Korban Nifsal on account of the following?
i. Slaughter at night, the blood spilled or left the Azarah, Linah, Yotzei, Tum'ah, Chutz li'Zmano, Chutz li'Mkomo, Pesulim did Kabalah and Zerikah (was done), the blood was put above (on the top half of the Mizbe'ach) instead of below or vice-versa, the blood was put on the inner Mizbe'ach instead of the outer Mizbe'ach or vice-versa, a Pesach or Chatas slaughtered Lo Lishmah.
2. Answer: "Toras ha'Olah" - there is one law for all Kodshim that came up, Lo Yered.
3. Suggestion: Perhaps we include Rove'a, Nirva, Muktzeh, Ne'evad, Mechir, Esnan, Kilayim, Treifah, and Yotzei Dofen!
4. Rejection: "Zos" excludes these.
5. Question: (The verses that include and exclude do not specify what to include or exclude -) why do we include the former and exclude the latter, and not vice-versa?
84b---------------------------------------84b

6. Answer: We include Pesulim b'Kodesh and exclude Pesulim that are not b'Kodesh.
(j) R. Yehudah (agrees with R. Shimon except for the three cases R. Yehudah specified) - he learns as follows:
1. (Beraisa): Linah of blood is 'Kosher' (i.e. if Alah, Lo Yered), for Eimurim are Kosher after Linah;
2. Eimurim are Kosher after Linah because meat (e.g. of a Shelamim) is permitted after Linah.
3. Yotzei is Kosher, because this is permitted on a Bamah;
4. Tamei is Kosher, because this is permitted in Korbanos Tzibur (if they cannot be offered b'Taharah);
5. Chutz li'Zmano is Kosher, because Zerikah of such blood is Meratzeh (like a proper Zerikah) regarding Pigul (Kares applies only if all the Matirim were offered without any Pesul other than Chutz li'Zmano);
6. Chutz li'Mkomo is Kosher, because the Torah equates it to Chutz li'Zmano;
7. If Pesulim did Kabalah and Zerikah (was done), the blood and Eimurim are Kosher - this is if the Pesulim are Kosher for Korbanos Tzibur (e.g. Teme'im).
(k) Objection: Can we learn something done improperly (Linah of Eimurim, or Yotzei) from something proper (Linah of meat, or Yotzei on a Bamah)?!
(l) Answer: Indeed, the Tana relies on "Zos Toras ha'Olah" (to include these).

   
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