Post A Note
Ask The Rabbi
Torah Study
Chat Room
World News
One Minute Joke
Famous Quotes

Free Advertisements

Hakol b'yday Shemayim Chutx m'Yiras Shemayim


Chesed Club World Wide Center & Discussion Groups

Username:   Password:

Create new account - Forgot username or password?


Back - Print Page

Menachos 28 - IMPROPER


(a) Answer #2 (to Contradiction 3:b (27B) - Rava): Both Beraisos are like Chachamim; Beraisa #2 is Machshir when the Kohen was facing west (towards the Ohel Mo'ed, even if the Haza'os were not towards the Ohel Mo'ed), Beraisa #1 is Posel when the Kohen was facing north or south.
(b) (Beraisa #1 (from above)): If Haza'os inside or of a Metzora were Lo Lishmah, they are Pesulos; if they were (Lishmah but) not facing the Ohel Mo'ed, they are Kesheros.
(c) Contradiction (Beraisa #3): If Haza'os (of a Metzora) were Lo Lishmah or not facing the Ohel Mo'ed, they are Kesheros.
(d) Answer #1 (Rav Yosef): Beraisa #1 is R. Eliezer, Beraisa #3 is Chachamim:
1. R. Eliezer equates Asham to Chatas (it is Pasul Lo Lishmah), the same applies to Log Asham (the oil), Chachamim do not equate Asham to Chatas.
(e) Objection: R. Eliezer uses a Hekesh to equate Asham with Chatas, he cannot learn from another Hekesh to Log Asham!
(f) Answer #2 (Rava): Both Beraisos are like Chachamim; Beraisa #3 is Machshir the Korban, Beraisa #1 teaches that the Metzora did not fulfill his obligation.
(a) (Mishnah): The seven branches of the Menorah are Me'akev each other, the seven lamps are Me'akev each other;
(b) The two Parshiyos in a Mezuzah are Me'akev each other - even one Kesav (this will be explained) is Me'akev;
(c) The four Parshiyos in Tefilin are Me'akev each other, even one Kesav is Me'akev;
(d) The four Tzitzis (sets of strings on each of the four corners of a garment) are Me'akev each other, because they are all one Mitzvah;
(e) R. Yishmael says, each of the four is a Mitzvah by itself.
(f) (Gemara): Question: What is the source (that seven branches are Me'akev)?
(g) Answer: It says 'Havayah' (it will be).
(a) (Beraisa): The Menorah was made Mikshah (from one piece), of gold;
1. If it was made from pieces it is Pasul, if it was made from other metals it is Kosher.
(b) Question: Presumably, a Menorah made from pieces is Pasul because it says 'Mikshah" and 'Havayah';
1. Likewise, a Menorah of other metals should be Pasul, it says "Zahav" and 'Havayah'!
(c) Answer: "Te'aseh" includes other metals.
(d) Question: Perhaps it includes a Menorah made from pieces!
(e) Answer: This cannot be, for 'Havayah' refers to "Mikshah" (it is written closer to Mikshah than to Zahav.)
(f) Question: "Te'aseh" refers to "Mikshah" (it should include even from pieces!)
(g) Answer: It says "Mikshah" twice, Le'akev.
(h) Question: It also says "Zahav" twice, this should also be Me'akev!
(i) Answer: The way we expound is reasonable - the repetition of "Mikshah" teaches that one piece is Me'akev, the repetition of "Zahav" teaches other laws (below);
1. But if gold was Me'akev and not one piece, what would we learn from the repetitions of "Zahav" and "Mikshah"?
(j) Question: Indeed, a Beraisa expounds them!
1. (Beraisa): "Kikar Zahav Tahor Ya'aseh Osah Es Kol ha'Kelim ha'Eleh" - the weight (of the Menorah and its vessels) must be a Kikar only if the Menorah is made of gold (which is l'Chatchilah.)
2. "Gevi'eha Kaftoreha u'Fracheha" - the Menorah must have (forms of) cups, buttons and flowers only if it is made of gold.
3. Suggestion: Perhaps the Menorah must have branches only if it is made of gold!
4. Rejection: Without branches, it is called a Pamut (candlestick), not a Menorah.
5. "V'Zeh Ma'aseh ha'Menorah Mikshah Zahav" - the Menorah must be made from one piece only if it is made of gold.
(k) Question: There is another "Mikshah" - what do we learn from it?
(l) Answer: It excludes trumpets (they may be made from pieces):
1. (Beraisa): The trumpets were made from a chunk of silver - if they were made from pieces, they are Kesherim, from other metals, they are Pesulim.
2. Question: Presumably, a trumpet made from other metals is Pasul because it says 'Kesef" and 'Havayah';
i. Likewise, a trumpet of pieces should be Pasul, it says "Mikshah" and 'Havayah'!
3. Answer: Regarding the Menorah it says "Mikshah *Hi*" - it must be Mikshah, trumpets need not be.
(m) (Beraisa): All the vessels that Moshe made were Kosher for his time and for all generations;

(n) The only exception is the trumpets, they were Kosher for his time but not for all generations.
(o) Question: Why were the trumpets different?
1. Suggestion: "Ase Lecha" - for yourself, not for generations.
2. Rejection: If so, we should similarly expound "V'Asisa Lecha Aron Etz" - for yourself, not for generations! (Griz - seemingly, this is like the opinion that the broken Luchos were kept it.)
3. Rather, there are two opinions how to expound that "Lecha" - either, make them from your own money; or, Hash-m said 'I would prefer your Aron (for generations) to that of Benei Yisrael (but the Aron for the Mishkan must come from the Nedavos of all of Yisrael.)
4. Culmination of question: We should similarly expound "Lecha" regarding trumpets!
(p) Answer: "Lecha" is repeated regarding trumpets ("V'Hayu Lecha"), therefore we expound it to exclude future generations.
(a) (Rav Papa brei d'Rav Chanin - Beraisa #1): The Menorah was made Mikshah, of gold;
1. Rebbi says, if it was made of silver it is Kosher, from tin, lead or copper, it is Pasul;
2. R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah is Machshir.
3. If it was made of wood, bone or glass, all agree that it is Pasul.
(b) Rav Yosef: How do you explain the argument?
(c) Rav Papa: Both Tana'im expound Klal, Prat and Klal:
1. R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah is Machshir anything like the Prat (gold), i.e. any metal;
2. Rebbi is Machshir what is like the Prat, i.e. silver, which is also important.
(d) Rav Yosef: There is a mistake in your Beraisa, rather, adopt my Beraisa:
1. (Beraisa #2 - Rebbi): If a Kli Shares was made of wood it is Pasul;
2. R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah is Machshir.
3. Question: What do they argue about?
4. Answer: Rebbi expounds Klal Prat u'Klal, R. Yosi expounds Ribuy and Mi'ut:
i. Rebbi expounds "V'Asisa Menorah" - Klal; "Zahav Tahor" - Prat; "Te'aseh ha'Menorah" - Klal; we include everything like the Prat, i.e. metal;
ii. R. Yosi expounds "V'Asisa Menorah" - Ribuy; "Zahav Tahor" - Mi'ut; "Te'aseh ha'Menorah" - Ribuy;
iii. The Ribuy includes everything, the Mi'ut excludes only one thing, earthenware vessels (which are lowly, not at all like the Prat.)
(e) Rav Papa: No, you should adopt my Beraisa in place of yours! (Rashba - perhaps your Beraisa is about other Kli Shares, but the Klal Prat u'Klal disqualifies a wooden Menorah.)
(f) Rav Yosef: No, another Beraisa supports my Beraisa!
1. (Beraisa #3): If there was no gold to make the Menorah, it may be made of silver; copper, iron, tin or lead;
2. R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah is Machshir even wood.
3. (Beraisa #4): One may not build a house the same size (dimensions) of the Heichal, nor an Achsadra (a room open on one side) the size of the Ulam, nor a Chatzer the size of Azarah, nor a table the size of the Shulchan, nor a candelabra like the Menorah;
4. One may make a candelabra of five, six, or eight branches; seven is forbidden, even from metals other than gold;
5. R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah forbids seven even from wood - the Chashmona'im (who were very poor) made a wooden Menorah!
6. Chachamim: No - they made a Menorah with shafts of iron covered with tin; when they became richer, they made a silver Menorah; when they became richer, they made one of gold.
(a) (Shmuel): The Menorah was 18 Tefachim tall:
1. The base was three Tefachim, the third Tefach was (in the shape of) a flower; above this were two smooth Tefachim (without design);
2. The next Tefach had (shapes of) a cup, button and flower (Rashi - each occupied a third of the circumference; Tosfos seems to learn, they were one above the other);
3. The next two Tefachim were smooth, then a Tefach like a button, with two branches emitting from it, one projecting outwards to each side, and up to the height of the Menorah;
4. The next Tefach was smooth, then a Tefach button, with two branches coming out (up to the height of the Menorah);
5. The next Tefach was smooth, then a Tefach button, with two branches coming out;
6. The next two Tefachim were smooth, the last three Tefachim had three cups, a button and a flower.
(b) The cups were like those of Alexandria (long and narrow), the buttons were like apples of Karti (Rambam - egg shaped), the flowers were like those sculpted on pillars.
(c) In all, there were 22 cups, 11 buttons and nine flowers; each design is Me'akev itself and the others (if any are lacking, the Menorah is Pasul.)
(d) Question: We understand why there are 22 cups - "Uva'Menorah Arba'ah Gevi'im Sheloshah Gevi'im Meshukadim ba'Kaneh ha'Echad Kaftor va'Ferach" - four on the central shaft, and 18 (in all) on the branches;
1. We understand why there are 11 buttons - two on the central shaft, six (in all) on the branches, and three where the branches come off the central shaft;
2. What is the source for nine flowers - there are two on the central shaft and six on the branches, this is only eight!
(e) Answer (Rav Salman): "Ad Yerechah Ad Pirchah Mikshah Hi" teaches another one.

| Chesed club | How to get started | Guide for the Shomrim | Short Prayer | In English |
| Short Prayer In Hebrew | 10 Rules Of Shmiras | Haloshon | Hebrew/English |

851 N.E. 182 Tr
N.M.B. Fl. 33162
305.491.1326 Cell
786.999.0282 Fax