Menachos 48 - SLAUGHTER FOR TOO MANY LOAVES
1) SLAUGHTER FOR TOO MANY LOAVES
(a) (Beraisa): If the two lambs were slaughtered for (i.e. to Mekadesh) four loaves, we take two loaves and wave them with the lambs, the other loaves are redeemed and eaten.
(b) (Rabanan): This is unlike Rebbi - since Rebbi says that slaughter is Mekadesh, we cannot redeem the other loaves!
1. If they (the extra two; Rashi - all) are taken outside the Azarah to be redeemed, they (Rashi - the Kosher ones) are Nifsalim on account of Yotzei;
2. If one redeems them inside, he brings Chulin b'Azarah!
(c) (Rav Chisda): Really, it is like Rebbi, they are redeemed inside;
1. *Kodesh* was brought into the Azarah, through redemption it automatically becomes Chulin (this is not considered bringing Chulin b'Azarah.)
(d) Question (Ravina - Beraisa): They are redeemed outside.
(e) Answer: Surely, this is like R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon - according to Rebbi, they would be Nifsalim on account of Yotzei!
(f) Suggestion (Rav Acha brei d'Rava): The Beraisa refutes the following teaching of R. Yochanan!
1. (Chizkiyah): If a Todah (which is brought with 40 loaves) was slaughtered for 80 loaves, 40 of them become Kodesh;
2. (R. Yochanan): None of them become Kodesh.
(g) Answer: We learned that R. Yochanan agrees if the slaughterer said that he only intends to Mekadesh 40 of them, 40 become Kodesh - in the Beraisa, he said that he only intends to Mekadesh two loaves.
2) TRANSGRESSING FOR THE SAKE OF TIKUN
(a) (R. Chanina or Tirasa - Beraisa): If four lambs were slaughtered for two loaves, we take (the blood of) two lambs and do Zerikah Lo Lishmah (l'Shem Shelamim - this permits Haktaras Eimurim and eating the meat.)
1. If not (i.e. we will Zorek the first two Lishmah), the latter lambs will have to be burned (they were Nidchim after slaughter Lishmah).
(b) Question (R. Yochanan): Do we transgress (to throw the blood Lo Lishmah) in order to gain (to salvage the other lambs?)!
1. (Mishnah - R. Eliezer): If Ivrei (limbs of) a Chatas were mixed with Ivrei Olah, we burn all of them on the Mizbe'ach - (even though Ivrei Chatas may not be burned for Re'ach Nicho'ach,) we consider the Chatas to be like wood;
2. Chachamim say, we wait for Ibur Tzurah, then all are burned in Beis ha'Sereifah.
3. We do not transgress (Lehaktir all the limbs, including Ivrei Chatas) in order to gain (Lehaktir Ivrei Olah)!
(c) Answer: We transgress in (a matter in order to gain in the same matter, e.g. in) a Chatas in order to gain in a Chatas, we do not transgress in a Chatas in order to gain in an Olah.
(d) Question: We do not transgress in a matter in order to gain in the same matter!
1. If Kivsei Atzeres were slaughtered Lo Lishmah, or if they were slaughtered before or after the proper time (Shavu'os), we Zorek the blood and eat the meat;
2. If Shavu'os was on Shabbos, we do not Zorek the blood;
i. If Zerikah was done, this permits Haktaras ha'Chelev at night.
3. We do not transgress (to do Zerikah l'Chatchilah) to gain!
(e) Answer: We would transgress on Shabbos to gain on Shabbos - here, the gain (Haktaras ha'Chelev) is on Motzei Shabbos, it is forbidden.
(f) Question: We do transgress in a matter in order to gain in a different matter!
1. (Mishnah): If a barrel of Terumah wine broke in the upper Gas (winepress) and it is about to fall into Tamei Chulin below, R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua agree that if one can save a Revi'is in Taharah, he must do so;
2. If he cannot:
i. R. Eliezer says, he must allow the Terumah to fall (even though it will become Tamei, mix with all the wine and forbid the mixture even to a Kohen), he may not actively Metamei it (e.g. to catch it in a Tamei vessel);
ii. R. Yehoshua says, (in order to save the Chulin) he may actively Metamei the Terumah.
(g) Answer: That is different, for the Terumah will become Tamei in any event.
(h) (Rav Yitzchak): If Kivsei Atzeres were slaughtered improperly (Lo Lishmah; alternatively, they were too old) they are Pesulim - they are burned in Beis ha'Sereifah after Ibur Tzurah.
(i) Rav Nachman: You equate these Shalmei Tzibur to Chatas - Tana d'vei Levi equates them to Shalmei Nedavah, he is Machshir!
1. (Tana d'vei Levi): Shalmei Nazir that were slaughtered improperly may be eaten for one day and a night, they are not brought with bread, the law of Zero'a Beshelah (the foreleg of Ayil Nazir is cooked and given to the Kohen) does not apply.
(j) Question (Beraisa): If a second year animal was brought for an Asham that must be in its first year, or vice-versa, it is Pasul; it is burned in Beis ha'Sereifah after Ibur Tzurah;
1. However, if a second year Olah was brought for Olas Nazir, Yoledes or Metzora, it is Kosher.
2. The general rule is, anything Kosher for Olas Nedavah (e.g. whether it is one or two years old) is Kosher (at least, b'Diavad) for Olas Chovah;
i. Anything Pasul for Chatas is Pasul for an Asham, except for Lo Lishmah.
(k) Answer: That Beraisa is like Tana d'vei Levi (who learns Chovah from Nedavah, not from Chovah):
(l) Question: Levi taught, if Asham Nazir or Asham Metzora was slaughtered Lo Lishmah, it is Kosher, the owner did not fulfill his obligation.
1. If the owner was Mechusar Zeman, or the sheep was two years old (a yearling is required), it is Pasul.
2. Levi does not learn (Asham, which is Chovah) from Shelamim (Nedavah)!
3. Answer: He learns Shelamim (Chovah) from Shelamim (Nedavah), he does not learn Asham from Shelamim.
(m) Question: If he learns Shelamim from Shelamim, he should also learn Asham from Asham, i.e. Asham Nazir and Asham Metzora from Asham Gezeilos and Asham Me'ilos (and Machshir a second year ram), and also Asham Gezeilos and Asham Me'ilos from Asham Nazir and Asham Metzora (and Machshir a yearling lamb for these!)
(n) Answer (Rav Simi Bar Ashi): We learn b'Diavad from b'Diavad, not from what is l'Chatchilah.
(o) Question: We do learn b'Diavad from l'Chatchilah!
1. (Beraisa) Question: What is the source that if Yotzei (Eimurim that left the Azarah) were brought on the Mizbe'ach, we do not take them down?
2. Answer: Because Yotzei is Kosher on a Bamah, it is not taken down from the Mizbe'ach.
(p) Answer: The Tana really learns from "Zos Toras ha'Olah" (and not from its Hechsher on a Bamah.)