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08-02-2011
Title:
Menachos 104 - BLOOD OF A

Message:
1) BLOOD OF A "NEVEILAH"

(a) Question: What was the conclusion?
(b) Answer (Rav Yosef): Rebbi's house relied on R. Yehudah for rulings, he taught as follows:
1. (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): The following six laws are leniencies of Beis Shamai and stringencies of Beis Hillel (our Gemara only brings the one relevant to our discussion):
i. Beis Shamai Metaher Dam Neveilah, Beis Hillel Metamei.
(c) R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah says, Beis Hillel Metamei only when there is a Revi'is, since it can congeal to a k'Zayis.
2) A "NEDAVAH" OF WINE
(a) (Mishnah): We do not bring a Nedavah of one, two or five Lugim of wine (for this amount is never brought for (any combination of) Nesachim;
(b) We may bring three Lugim (the size of Niskei Keves), four (like Niskei Ayil), six or any greater number of Lugim. (If a number (at least) six is a multiple of three, it corresponds to a whole number of Nesachim for lambs; if it is one (or two) more than a multiple of three, we substitute one (or two) ram(s) for one (or two) lamb(s).)
(c) (Gemara) Question: Are Nesachim fixed (if one vowed to bring a certain amount, is he obligated to bring it all at once?)
1. Question: What is the case?
2. Answer: If Reuven brought five Lugim:
3. If we say that Nesachim are not fixed, he can offer four, the extra Log will be Nedavah (it itself or wine bought with its redemption money will be combined with other wine for Niskei Tzibur);
4. If Nesachim are fixed, it cannot be offered until a sixth Log is added.
(d) Answer #1 (Abaye - Mishnah) There were six boxes for Nedavah (money to buy Nidvos Tzibur.)
1. Question: Why were there six?
2. Answer: They correspond to six Mosaros - of Chatas, Asham, Asham Nazir, Asham Metzora, Kinim (Chatas ha'Of and Olas ha'Of) and Minchas Chotei.
3. If Nesachim are not fixed, there should have been a seventh box for Nedavah, i.e. Mosar Nesachim!
(e) Rejection: No, there are boxes only for money of Mosaros which must be saved for Nedavah;
1. Mosar Nesachim is very common, usually it can be joined to other people's Mosar Nesachim and (it itself is) offered the same day, we need not (redeem it and) store the money.
(f) Answer #2 (Rava - Beraisa): "Ezrach" - this teaches that Nesachim may be brought for Nedavah;
1. Question: How much does one bring?
2. Answer: He brings three Lugim (equal to the smallest Nesech of any animal.)
3. Question: What is the source to permit bringing more?
4. Answer: "Yihyeh".
5. Suggestion: Perhaps he may bring less?
6. Rejection "Kachah".
7. Question: What does the Beraisa mean 'to bring more'?
i. It cannot mean bringing four or six - no verse is needed for them, they correspond to Niskei Eilim and Parim!
8. Answer: Rather, it means that he may bring five, i.e. Nesachim are not fixed.
(g) Question (Rav Ashi - Mishnah): We do not bring a Nedavah of one, two or five Lugim of wine;
1. Presumably, the law of five is like that of (one or) two, it cannot be brought at all!
(h) Answer: We need not say so, their laws can be different!
(i) (Abaye): If Nesachim are not fixed, the law is clear (whatever may be offered is offered, the rest is Nedavah);
(j) If Nesachim are fixed:
1. Surely any amount from six until 10 is offered;
2. Question: If one brings 11, what is the law?
104b---------------------------------------104b

i. Do we say, he intends to bring Nesachim for two bulls (12), therefore he must bring 12?
ii. Or, perhaps he intends to bring Nesachim for two rams and a sheep?
iii. Is it normal to bring Nesachim corresponding to different animals (more than just one of each), or not? (If it is normal, surely this is his intent, we would not suspect that he brought an incomplete Nesech.)
3. This question is not resolved.
3) A "NEDAVAH" OF OIL
(a) (Mishnah - R. Akiva): One may bring a Nedavah of wine, but not of oil;
(b) R. Tarfon says, one may (even) bring a Nedavah of oil.
(c) R. Tarfon: We find that wine is brought Chovah (i.e. with a Korban) and Nedavah - likewise oil, which is brought Chovah, may be brought Nedavah!
(d) R. Akiva: You cannot learn from wine, when it is brought Chovah (i.e. with a Korban) it is offered by itself - when oil is brought Chovah, it is mixed (with the Minchah!)
(e) Two people may not bring (a Minchah of) one Isaron in partnership, but they may bring a (Behemah for an) Olah, Shelamim or even one bird in partnership.
(f) (Gemara - Rava): We learn from R. Akiva and R. Tarfon that one may offer a Nedavah of Minchas Nesachim every day.
(g) Objection: This is obvious!
(h) Answer: One might have thought, the Torah teaches about five kinds of Minchas Nedavah (brought by themselves), there are no others - Rava teaches that this is when a person (vowed to bring a Minchah and) did not specify, but if he specifies to bring Minchas Nesachim, he may do so.
(i) (Mishnah): Two people may not bring (one Isaron in partnership, but they may bring an Olah, Shelamim or even one bird in partnership.)
(j) Question: What is the reason?
(k) Answer #1: Regarding Minchah it says "Takriv" (singular).
1. Question: Similarly regarding Olah it says "Yakriv"!
2. Answer: Regarding Olah it says "L'Oloseichem" (to permit partnership).
3. Objection: Similarly regarding Minchah it says "L'Minchoseichem"!
(l) Answer #2: Regarding Minchah it says "Nefesh".
(m) Support (Beraisa - Rebbi): "Asher Yakriv Korbano l'Chol Nidreihem ul'Chol Nidvosam Asher Yakrivu la'Sh-m" - everything may be brought in partnership, the Torah only excludes Minchah, there it says "Nefesh".
(n) Question (R. Yitzchak): Why does it say "Nefesh" only regarding Minchah?
(o) Answer: Hash-m said 'Usually a poor person brings a Minchah - I consider it as if he offered his soul!'
(p) Question (R. Yitzchak): Why are there five kinds of Minchas Nedavah with oil?
(q) Answer: This is a parable, the king's friend prepared a meal for the king. Knowing that his friend was poor, the king requested that he make five kinds of fried foods, in order that the meal will be pleasing.
***** PEREK HAREI ALAI ISARON *****
4) AN UNSPECIFIC VOW

(a) (Mishnah): If one said 'Alai (it is incumbent on me to bring) an Isaron', he must bring (a Minchah of) one Isaron;
(b) If he said 'Alai Esronim', he must bring two Esronim;
(c) If he (knows that he) specified how many Esronim he will bring, but does not remember the amount, he must bring 60 Esronim (the largest possible Minchah, if he vowed less, the excess is Nedavah (Rashash, Sefas Emes - he is Misnadev to increase his vow to 60).)
(d) If he said 'Alai Minchah', he may bring any (of the five types of) Minchas Nedavah that he wants;
(e) R. Yehudah says, he must bring Minchas Soles, for this is the choice Minchah.
(f) If he said '(Alai) Minchah', or 'a type of Minchah', he must bring one Minchah;
(g) If he said 'Menachos', or 'a type of Menachos', he must bring two Menachos;
(h) If he specified which type he will bring, but does not remember which, he must bring all five types.
(i) If he vowed 'A Minchah of (a certain number of) Esronim', but does not remember the amount, he must bring 60 Esronim;
(j) Rebbi says, he must bring Menachos of every size, from one Isaron until 60 (60 Menachos in all.)
(k) (Gemara) Objection: The first law ('Alai Isaron') is obvious!
(l) Answer: It is taught on account of the next law, 'Alai Esronim'.
(m) Objection: Also this is obvious, 'Esronim' is at least two!
(n) Answer: It is taught on account of the next law, he specified but does not remember the amount.
(o) (Mishnah): If he specified but does not remember the amount, he must bring 60 Esronim.
(p) Question: Who is the Tana of the Mishnah?
(q) Answer #1 (Chizkiyah): It is not Rebbi, for he says (in the Seifa) that he must bring Menachos of every size, from one until 60.
(r) Objection (and Answer #2 - R. Yochanan): It is even like Rebbi - the case is, he specified how much he will bring, but he did not vow to bring them in one Kli;
1. He brings 60 Esronim, each in its own Kli (no matter what he vowed, he fulfills his obligation. In the Seifa, he specified to bring them in one Kli, therefore he must bring Menachos of every size.)

   
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