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08-02-2011
Title:
Chulin 3 - A

Message:
1) A "KUSI" THAT SLAUGHTERS

(a) Answer #2 (To question 1:c, Daf 2A - Abaye): The Mishnah teaches: 'All may slaughter' - even Kusim (Nochrim that were settled in place of the 10 Shevatim; they converted to avoid being eaten by lions, they did not observe all the Mitzvos);
1. This is only if a Yisrael supervises; but if the Yisrael goes in and out, a Kusi may not slaughter;
2. If he did slaughter, one gives the Kusi a k'Zayis (an olive's worth) of the animal to eat. If he eats it, the animal is permitted; if not, not.
(b) (The Mishnah continues) 'Except for a deaf person, lunatic or minor' - if they slaughtered, the animal is forbidden, lest they pause, press, or do Chaladah.
(c) Question: '*Any of them* that slaughtered while others looked on, the slaughter is Kosher' - to whom does this refer?
1. Suggestion: If it refers to a deaf person, lunatic or minor - they were just mentioned, the Mishnah should have said 'If they', not 'Any of them'!
(d) Answer: Rather, it refers to a Kusi.
(e) Objection: But the beginning of the Mishnah said that a Kusi may slaughter l'Chatchilah when a Yisrael supervises!
1. This is left difficult.
(f) Question (Rava): Why does Abaye say that if the Yisrael goes in and out, the Kusi may not slaughter?
1. (Mishnah): One who leaves a Nochri in his store, and a Yisrael goes in and out - (the wine) is permitted.
(g) Counter-question: That question has no basis - the Mishnah does not say one *may* leave a Nochri in his store (if the Yisrael will go in and out) - it says, one who leaves a Nochri ... the wine is permitted!
(h) Retraction: Rather, Rava asked from the following Mishnah.
1. (Mishnah): The watchman need not sit and watch the whole time - if he goes in and out, this suffices.
(i) Answer #3 (To question 1:c, Daf 2A - Rava): The Mishnah teaches: 'All may slaughter' - even a Kusi;
1. This is only if a Yisrael goes in and out;
2. If he slaughtered unsupervised, one gives an olive's worth of the animal to the Kusi to eat. If he eats it, the animal is permitted; if not, not.
(j) (The Mishnah continues) 'Except for a deaf person, lunatic or minor' - if they slaughtered, the animal is forbidden, lest they pause, press, or do Chaladah.
(k) Question: '*Any of them* that slaughtered while others looked on, the slaughter is Kosher' - to whom does this refer?
1. Suggestion: If to a deaf person, lunatic or minor - they were just mentioned, the Mishnah should have said 'If they', not 'Any of them'!
(l) Answer: Rather, it refers to a Kusi.
(m) Objection: But the beginning of the Mishnah said that a Kusi may slaughter l'Chatchilah even if a Yisrael goes in and out!
1. This is left difficult.
2) A "MUMAR" THAT SLAUGHTERS
(a) Answer #4 (Rav Ashi): The Mishnah teaches: 'All may slaughter' - even a Yisrael Mumar (i.e. a wanton sinner).
1. Question: Regarding what is he a Mumar?
2. Answer: He eats Neveilos (unslaughtered animals), as Rava taught.
i. (Rava): A Yisrael Mumar that eats Neveilos for pleasure (i.e. his intent is not to anger Hash-m), if one checks a knife, one may let the Mumar slaughter with it; the animal may be eaten.
3b---------------------------------------3b

(b) The Mishnah teaches: If one checks a knife, a Mumar may slaughter with it, and the animal may be eaten;
(c) If the knife was not checked, a Mumar should not slaughter; if he did, the knife must be checked afterwards; the animal may be eaten only if the knife is good;
(d) (The Mishnah continues) 'Except for a deaf person, lunatic or minor' - if they slaughtered, the animal is forbidden, lest they pause, press, or do Chaladah.
(e) Question: '*Any of them* that slaughtered while others looked on, the slaughter is Kosher' - to whom does this refer?
1. Suggestion: If it refers to a deaf person, lunatic or minor - they were just mentioned, the Mishnah should have said 'If they', not 'Any of them'!
(f) Answer: Rather, it refers to a Mumar.
(g) Question: What is the case?
1. Suggestion: If he slaughters with a checked knife - we said, he may slaughter l'Chatchilah!
(h) Answer: Rather, he slaughters with an unchecked knife.
(i) Question: If the knife is around - we must check the knife!
1. If the knife is not around - what does it help that others looked on, perhaps the knife is invalid!
2. This is left difficult.
3) THE LAST ANSWERS
(a) Version #1 - Answer #5 (Ravina): The Mishnah teaches: 'All may slaughter' - any one that knows the laws, even if he is not established (that his hands are skilled, and that he does not get weary during the slaughter);
(b) This only applies if we know that he knows the laws; if not, he may not slaughter.
1. If we do not know if he knows, and he slaughtered, we test him: if he knows the laws, the animal is permitted; if not, not.
(c) (The Mishnah continues) 'Except for a deaf person, lunatic or minor' - if they slaughtered, the animal is forbidden, lest they pause, press, or do Chaladah.
(d) Question: '*Any of them* that slaughtered while others looked on, the slaughter is Kosher' - to whom does this refer?
1. Suggestion: If it refers to a deaf person, lunatic or minor - they were just mentioned, the Mishnah should have said 'If they', not 'Any of them'!
(e) Answer: Rather, it refers to one about whom we are unsure whether or not he knows the laws.
(f) Question: It suffices to test him - why must others see the slaughter?
(g) Answer: The case is, he is not here to be tested.
(h) Version #2 - Answer #6 (Ravina): The Mishnah teaches: 'All may slaughter' - any one that is established (that his hands are skilled, and that he does not get weary during the slaughter), even if we do not know whether he knows the laws;
(i) This only applies if we know that he has slaughtered in front of us 2 or 3 times without wearying; if not, he may not slaughter, lest he will weary during the slaughter.
1. If he did not slaughter in front of us 2 or 3 times, and slaughtered - if he is sure that he did not weary, the animal is permitted.
(j) (The Mishnah continues) 'Except for a deaf person, lunatic or minor' - if they slaughtered, the animal is forbidden, lest they pause, press, or do Chaladah.
(k) Question: '*Any of them* that slaughtered while others looked on, the slaughter is Kosher' - to whom does this refer?
1. Suggestion: If to a deaf person, lunatic or minor - they were just mentioned, the Mishnah should have said 'If they', not 'Any of them'!
(l) Answer: Rather, it refers to one not established to us (that he does not weary).
(m) Question: It suffices that he says that he did not weary - why must others see the slaughter?
(n) Answer: The case is, he is not here to be asked.
1. Ravina and Rabah bar Ula did not want to learn as Abaye, Rava and Rav Ashi, because of the difficulty all three of them had in explaining the end of the Mishnah - ''*Any of them* that slaughtered'.
2. All (except for Rabah bar Ula) did not want to learn as Rabah bar Ula: they argue on the first explanation of his opinion, which says that our Mishnah was the proper place to teach about slaughter of Kodshim - they say, the Mishnah in Zevachim is the proper place!
i. The second explanation says that the Mishnah in Zevachim was the proper place to teach about slaughter of Kodshim; it was taught here to teach about slaughter of Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh. They say that Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh has the law of Chulin, there is no need to teach that a Tamei person may slaughter Chulin!
3. All (the others) did not want to learn as Ravina - in Version #1 Ravina says that only one known to know the laws may slaughter - they hold, most who slaughter know the laws, we assume that he knows the laws;
i. In Version #2, Ravina says that only one established not to weary may slaughter - they hold, we are not concerned that he will weary (most people do not weary).
4. Rava did not learn as Abaye, because of the question he asked on Abaye (a guard that goes in and out suffices);
i. Abaye did not learn as Rava - he holds, a guard that goes in and out only suffices for wine, which the Nochri may not touch;
ii. It is not enough for slaughter, for the animal is the Kusi's hands.
5. Rav Ashi did not learn as Abaye or Rava - he holds, the Kusim never sincerely converted, they only wanted to be saved from the lions.
6. Abaye did not learn as Rav Ashi - he argues on Rava's law (that a Mumar may slaughter with a checked knife).
(o) Question: Why didn't Rava learn as Rav Ashi, that the Mishnah teaches Rava's law?
(p) Answer: Indeed, he does!
1. Rava addressed Abaye on Abaye's terms (granted, you argue on me and say that a Mumar may not slaughter, rather the Mishnah speaks of Kusim - but you should say that he may slaughter if a Yisrael goes in and out).

   
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