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08-02-2011
Title:
Chulin 15 - BENEFITING FROM LABOR DONE ON SHABBOS

Message:
1) BENEFITING FROM LABOR DONE ON SHABBOS

(a) Answer #4 (to 14A, 1:d - Rav Ashi): The Mishnah is like R. Yehudah's opinion regarding Melachah done on Shabbos (b'Shogeg).
(b) (Mishnah - R. Meir): If one cooks on Shabbos:
1. If he was Shogeg, he (and others) may eat the food (immediately);
2. If he was Mezid, he (and others) may not eat the food (on Shabbos);
3. R. Yehudah says, if he was Shogeg, he (and others) may eat the food after Shabbos; if he was Mezid, he may never eat the food (but others may);
4. R. Yochanan ha'Sandlar says, if he was Shogeg, he may never eat the food, but others may eat it after Shabbos; if he was Mezid, no one may ever eat the food.
(c) Question: Why not say that the Mishnah is when he was Mezid, like R. Meir?
(d) Answer: The Mishnah discusses Shabbos and Yom Kipur, teaching that they are the same - just like on Yom Kipur he may not eat it, whether or not he was Mezid, also on Shabbos.
(e) Question: We cannot say that he was Shogeg, it says 'He is Chayav Misah'!
(f) Answer: It means, even though he would be Chayav Misah if he was Mezid, since he was Shogeg, the slaughter is Kosher.
(g) Question: Why not establish the Mishnah like R. Yochanan ha'Sandlar, who says that whether he was Shogeg or Mezid, the food is forbidden?
(h) Answer: R. Yochanan ha'Sandlar distinguishes - after Shabbos, only others may eat the food; our Tana says, the slaughter is Kosher, implying that anyone may eat.
2) THE FINAL RULING
(a) A reciter of Beraisos: If one cooks on Shabbos - if he was Shogeg, he may eat the food; if he was Mezid, he may not eat it.
(b) Rav silenced him.
(c) Question: Why did Rav do this?
1. Suggestion: He did so because Rav holds like R. Yehudah, and the reciter holds like R. Meir.
2. Rejection #1: That is no reason to silence him!
3. Rejection #2: Rav does not hold like R. Yehudah!
i. (Rav Chanan bar Ami): Regarding his Talmidim, Rav would rule like R. Meir - but in public he ruled like R. Yehudah, on account of ignoramuses (if they heard that the Halachah follows R. Meir, they might invent new leniencies).
ii. Suggestion: Perhaps the reciter said this in the public class; therefore, Rav had to silence him.
iii. Rejection: There would be no need - people listen to the man broadcasting the Chacham's words, not to a reciter teaching on his own.
(d) Answer (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): The reciter was saying if one *slaughters* on Shabbos - if he was Shogeg, he may eat the meat; if he was Mezid, he may not;
1. Rav objected - R. Meir only permits food cooked on Shabbos, since it could have been eaten raw, but meat slaughtered on Shabbos could not have been eaten unslaughtered.
(e) Question: But the Mishnah says that meat slaughtered on Shabbos may not be eaten, and Rabanan said that Rav establishes the Mishnah like R. Yehudah - it must be, R. Meir would permit it!
(f) Answer: R. Meir only permits when a person (in the household) was (dangerously) sick when Shabbos began (they planned to slaughter for him if necessary).
15b---------------------------------------15b

(g) Question: If so, it was permitted to slaughter - why does R. Yehudah forbid the meat?
(h) Answer: The case is, he became healthy again before the slaughter; like Rav Acha bar Ada taught.
1. (Rav Acha bar Rav Ada bar Ahavah citing Rav): If one slaughters for a sick person (on Shabbos), a healthy person may not eat from the meat; if one cooks for a sick person, a healthy person may eat the food.
2. Question: Why are these different?
3. Answer: The meat could not have been eaten unslaughtered; food could have been eaten raw.
(i) (Rav Papa): Sometimes when one slaughters for a sick person, a healthy person may eat from the meat, for example, a person was sick when Shabbos began;
1. Sometimes when one cooks for a sick person, a healthy person may not eat the food - for example, he detached (Rashi; Tosfos - cooked) gourds.
(j) (Rav Dimi of Nehardai): The Halachah is, if one slaughters for a sick person, a healthy person may eat from the meat.
1. Question: Why is this?
2. Answer: Since the animal must be slaughtered to eat even a drop, there is no concern that he slaughters also for the sake of healthy people.
(k) (Rav Dimi of Nehardai): If one cooks for a sick person, a healthy person may not eat the food.
1. This is a decree, lest he come to cook extra for healthy people.
3) WHICH INSTRUMENTS ARE KOSHER FOR SLAUGHTER?
(a) If one slaughters with a hand scythe, rock or reed, the slaughter is valid.
(b) Anyone may slaughter, at any time, with anything, except for a sickle, saw, teeth, or fingernail, for these tear the Simanim.
(c) (Gemara): 'If one slaughters' - this connotes, b'Diavad.
(d) Question: We understand why one should not slaughter with a hand scythe - he may come to slaughter with the side that is not smooth;
1. But a rock or reed is Kosher l'Chatchilah!
2. (Beraisa): One may slaughter with anything - a rock, glass, or a reed.
(e) Answer: It is b'Diavad when they are attached (to the ground), when they are detached it is l'Chatchilah.
1. (Rav Kahana): If one slaughters with something attached, Rebbi disqualifies the slaughter, R. Chiya is Machshir.
i. Rav Kahana only said that R. Chiya is Machshir b'Diavad, not l'Chatchilah.
(f) Question: Does R. Chiya really say it is b'Diavad?!
1. (Beraisa): We may slaughter with anything, be it detached or attached, whether the knife is above the animal's neck or below it.
2. Question: The Beraisa is not like Rebbi, nor like R. Chiya!
i. R. Chiya only permits the slaughter b'Diavad; Rebbi disqualifies it even b'Diavad!
(g) Answer (to both questions): Really, the Beraisa is like R. Chiya, he permits it l'Chatchilah.
1. Rav Kahana taught the argument in the b'Diavad case, to teach that Rebbi disqualifies the slaughter even b'Diavad.
(h) Question: Our Mishnah only permits b'Diavad - this is unlike Rebbi (he forbids even b'Diavad), and unlike R. Chiya (he permits l'Chatchilah)!
(i) Answer: (Indeed, Answer (g) is correct,) R. Chiya permits l'Chatchilah; our Mishnah is like Rebbi.
(j) Question: But Rav Kahana taught that Rebbi disqualifies even b'Diavad!
(k) Answer: Rav Kahana discusses when the knife was always attached; the Mishnah is Machshir b'Diavad when the knife was originally detached and later attached.
1. (Beraisa): If one slaughters with a (knife on a) wheel, it is Kosher; with an attached knife, it is Kosher; if he stuck a knife in the wall and slaughtered, it is Kosher;
2. If a reed grew on its own, or a rock jut out from a wall (e.g. in a cave, similar to the reed, which grew by itself) and he slaughtered with it, it is invalid.

   
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