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08-04-2011
Title:
Chulin 34 -

Message:
1) "CHULIN" TREATED LIKE "KODESH" (cont.)

(a) Question: He should establish the Mishnah to discuss Chulin Al Taharas Terumah, then the Mishnah can be like R. Yehoshua!
(b) Answer: The Mishnah discusses meat - Terumah does not apply to meat (meat Al Taharas Terumah is meaningless).
(c) Question: The Mishnah discusses Chayos, which cannot be Korbanos (so meat of Chayos 'Al Taharas Kodesh' should be meaningless)!
(d) Answer: Since people can confuse meat of Chayos and Behemos, Al Taharas Kodesh applies to both; one would never confuse meat and produce.
(e) (Ula): Our colleagues say that the Mishnah discusses Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh, and it is unlike R. Yehoshua; I say, it can even be like R. Yehoshua!
1. R. Yehoshua teaches that *even* something Al Taharas Terumah can become a Shelishi l'Tumah, all the more so something Al Taharas Kodesh, which is more stringent!
(f) Question: Who are the colleagues Ula alluded to?
(g) Answer: He alluded to Rabah bar bar Chanah.
1. (Rabah bar bar Chanah): R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua argued as follows:
2. R. Eliezer: We find that one who eats food becomes more Tamei than the food itself - one who touches the Neveilah of a Tahor bird does not become Tamei, but if he eats it, he and his clothes become Teme'im when he swallows it;
i. We should say that if one eats a Rishon, Sheni or Shelishi l'Tumah, he becomes at least as Tamei as what he ate!
3. R. Yehoshua: We cannot learn from a Tahor Neveilah bird, that is a Chidush;
i. Rather, regular Tamei food is more severe than the one who eats it - Tamei food the size of an egg can Metamei other foods, but one who eats Tamei food does not become Tamei until he eats half a loaf (the volume of two eggs)!
4. R. Eliezer: We do not learn (the degree of) Tum'ah from the quantity required to Metamei;
i. Also, you contradict yourself! You say that one who eats a Rishon l'Tumah becomes a Sheni - this is according to your rule that one does not become as Tamei as what he eats;
ii. But you also say that one who eats a Sheni becomes a Sheni!
5. R. Yehoshua: A Sheni is different, for a food that is a Sheni can make another food a Sheni through a liquid (i.e. if the second food is wet).
6. Version #1 (Rashi) R. Eliezer: If so, you should also say that one who eats a Rishon becomes a Rishon, for a food that is a Rishon makes a liquid a Rishon!
7. Version #2 (Tosfos) R. Eliezer: That is not a case of a Tum'ah imparting the same Tum'ah to another food - the liquid becomes a Rishon (a special decree, on account of liquids that are an Av ha'Tum'ah), the liquid makes the second food a Sheni! (End of Version #2)
i. (Mishnah): Anything which is Posel Terumah, it makes a liquid a Rishon, except for a Tevul Yom (one who was Tamei and immersed today, his Taharah is not complete until nightfall).
ii. Also - why do you say that one who eats a Shelishi becomes a Sheni?
8. R. Yehoshua: (Rashi - a special decree makes a liquid a Rishon, we do not learn from it that one who eats a Rishon becomes a Rishon;)
i. I only said that one who eats a Shelishi becomes a Sheni regarding Chulin Al Taharas Terumah, which is not considered guarded regarding Kodshim (therefore, we suspect that perhaps he ate a Sheni).
34b---------------------------------------34b
2) EATING A "SHELISHI"

(a) (R. Asi citing R. Yochanan): If one eats Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh that is a Shelishi, he becomes a Sheni regarding Kodesh.
(b) Question (R. Zeira - Mishnah): If one eats a Shelishi he becomes a Sheni regarding Kodesh, but not regarding Terumah;
1. The case is, he ate Chulin Al Taharas Terumah.
2. Inference: This only applies to Chulin Al Taharas Terumah, not to Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh!
(c) Answer (R. Asi): No - he teaches a bigger Chidush, that it even applies to Chulin Al Taharas Terumah (and all the more so, Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh).
(d) Question: But R. Yehoshua said, he becomes a Sheni only because the guarding of Terumah is insufficient regarding Kodshim!
(e) Answer: Rabah bar bar Chanah said in the name of R. Yochanan that R. Yehoshua said this - R. Asi holds that R. Yochanan never said this.
(f) (Ula): If one eats a Shelishi of Chulin Al Taharas Terumah, he becomes forbidden to eat Terumah.
(g) Question: We learn this from the Mishnah, why must Ula teach it?
1. (Mishnah): He becomes a Sheni regarding Kodesh, but not regarding Terumah.
2. (Inference: He is not a Sheni regarding Terumah, but he is a Shelishi (i.e. he may not eat it).
(h) Answer: One might have thought, he is neither a Sheni nor a Shelishi regarding Terumah;
1. Since the Mishnah said he is a Sheni regarding Kodshim, it said that he is not a Sheni regarding Terumah (for parallel structure).
2. Ula teaches that this is not so.
(i) Question (Rav Hamnuna - Mishnah): If Chulin is a Rishon, it is Tamei, it is Metamei food that it touches;
1. A Sheni is Posel, it does not make Tamei;
2. A Shelishi may be eaten with Terumah mixed in (surely, it was guarded like Terumah since he planned to mix it with Terumah).
3. (Summation of question): If one who eats a Shelishi becomes a Shelishi, why is this permitted?
(j) Answer: The case is, he mixes less than a k'Zayis of Terumah in a half-loaf's volume of the mixture (so it is not treated as Terumah, rather as regular Chulin, Shelishi does not apply to Chulin (it is Tahor)).

   
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