Post A Note
Ask The Rabbi
Torah Study
Chat Room
World News
One Minute Joke
Famous Quotes

Free Advertisements

Hakol b'yday Shemayim Chutx m'Yiras Shemayim


Chesed Club World Wide Center & Discussion Groups

Username:   Password:

Create new account - Forgot username or password?


Back - Print Page

Chulin 43 - THE 18

1) THE 18 "TEREIFOS" (cont.)

(a) (Ula): Eight kinds of Tereifos were taught to Moshe on Sinai - punctures, cuts, missing organs, deficient organs, tears, Drisah, animals that fell, and broken organs.
1. Ula excludes afflicted organs, i.e. Rachish bar Papa's teaching, an afflicted kidney.
(b) (Chiya bar Rav): Any of eight punctures makes an animal Tereifah.
(c) Question: There is a ninth - a punctured gall bladder!
(d) Answer: That is according to R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah, the Halachah is not like him.
(e) (Beraisa): If the Kevah or small intestines were punctured, it is Tereifah;
(f) R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah says, even if the gall bladder was punctured.
(g) (R. Yitzchak b'Rebbi Yosef, citing R. Yochanan): The Halachah follows R. Yosi;
1. Chachamim: Iyov said "My gall bladder spills to the ground", yet he lived!
2. R. Yosi: We cannot learn from miraculous cases.
i. Iyov's kidneys were stricken, according to nature, he could not survive (Tosfos - without a cure)!
ii. We must say, he was kept alive miraculously - "Just guard his soul (that he will not die)."
(h) (R. Yitzchak b'Rebbi Yosef, citing R. Yochanan): The Halachah is like the opinion that if less than k'Zayis (an olive's worth) of the liver remains, it is Tereifah.
(i) Contradiction (Rabah bar bar Chanah, citing R. Yochanan): The Halachah follows an unauthored Mishnah.
1. (Our Mishnah): If the liver was removed, and nothing remains (it is Tereifah).
2. Inference: If anything remains, it is Kosher.
3. (Summation of question): R. Yochanan should rule like our unauthored Mishnah!
(j) Answer: Amora'im argue about R. Yochanan's opinion (if he really said (h), he did not say (i)).
(k) (R. Yitzchak b'Rebbi Yosef, citing R. Yochanan): If the gall bladder was punctured, but the liver seals (covers) the hole, it is Kosher.
(l) (R. Yitzchak b'Rebbi Yosef, citing R. Yochanan): If the Kurkevan (gizzard, the second stomach of a bird) was punctured, but the inner membrane is intact, it is Kosher.
(m) Question: If the inner membrane was punctured, but the stomach is intact, what is the law?
(n) Answer (Rav Nachman): If either one (but not both) is punctured, it is Kosher.
(a) (Rava): The Veshet has two membranes; the outer is red, the inner is white; if either one (but not both) is punctured, it is Kosher.
1. Question: Why must Rava specify which is red and which white?
2. Answer: If the colors are reversed, it is Tereifah.
(b) Question: What if both membranes are punctured, but in different places?
(c) Answer #1 (Mar Zutra): Regarding the Veshet this is Kosher, regarding the gizzard it is Tereifah (food will go between the membranes and seep to the other hole and leave).
(d) Answer #2 (Rav Ashi): Just the opposite! The Veshet contracts and expands during digestion and breathing, the holes will line up, there will be a puntcure going all the way through; the gizzard is stationary, the holes will not line up.
(e) (Rav Acha brei d'Rav Yosef): I heard that Mar Zutra also said like Rav Ashi.
(f) (Rava): If a scab formed on a wound in the Veshet, this is not considered a seal to Machshir the animal).
(g) (Rava): The Veshet cannot be checked from the outside (for it is normally red), only from the inside (i.e. turning it inside out).
(h) Question: To what does Rava's teaching apply?

(i) Answer: If we are in doubt if (Rashi - the Veshet was punctured or) it became Tereifah on account of Drisah (if the venom makes the Veshet red, it is Tereifah).
1. A doubtfully Nidras bird was brought before Rabah; he was checking the Veshet from the outside.
2. Abaye: But you taught that the Veshet can only be checked from the inside!
3. Rabah checked it from the inside and found blood indicating that the venom had penetrated; he ruled that it is Tereifah.
i. Initially, he checked from the outside to see if Abaye would catch the mistake.
(j) (Ula): If a thorn became stuck in the Veshet, we are not concerned that it punctured the Veshet and the wound healed (this would be Tereifah, since the scab is not considered a proper seal).
(k) Question: According to Ula, why is this different than a doubtfully Nidras animal?
(l) Answer: There also, Ula is not concerned.
(m) Question: Why is this different than two pieces of meat, one of which is Chelev (we do not know which, on account of the doubt we may not eat either one)?
(n) Answer: There, we know that a forbidden piece is there.
(o) Question: Why is this different than one who slaughters with a checked knife, and finds (after slaughtering) that the knife is blemished (the animal is forbidden)?
(p) Answer: There, a problem (definitely) arose in the knife.
(q) Question: Why is this different than Safek Tum'ah in Reshus ha'Yachid (about which we are stringent)?
1. Counter-question: Why not rather compare it to Safek Tum'ah in Reshus ha'Rabim (about which we are lenient)?
2. Answer: Safek Tum'ah in Reshus ha'Rabim is a special law learned from Sotah (we do not learn prohibitions from it).
(r) (Answer: Also Safek Tum'ah in a Reshus ha'Yachid is a special law learned from Sotah, we do not learn prohibitions from it).
(s) (A Chacham): Ula only said that we are not concerned for a thorn *found* in the Veshet; we would be concerned for one *lodged* in the Veshet.
(t) Objection (Rav Kahana): Ula would not need to permit a thorn found in the Veshet - animals that graze freely eat thorns all the time!
(a) (Rav): A puncture in Turbatz Veshet (the place where the Veshet is attached to the jaw) of any size makes the animal Tereifah;
1. He holds that this is a valid place for slaughter (like the rest of the Veshet).
(b) (Shmuel): It is only Tereifah if the majority is cut.
1. He holds, this is an invalid place for slaughter.
(c) Question: Which part of the Veshet is considered Turbatz Veshet?
(d) Answer #1 (Mari bar Mar Ukva): If one slices it (widthwise) and the cut area expands, this is Turbatz Veshet; if the cut area does not expand, it is the Veshet proper;
(e) Answer #2 (Rav Papi): If the cut area stays the same size, this is Turbatz Veshet; if the cut area constricts, it is the Veshet proper.
(f) Version #1 - Answer #3 (Yonah (a Chacham)): Turbatz Veshet is the place where it swallows.
(g) Version #2 (Zira): In a Yonah (dove), Turbatz Veshet is the place where it swallows. (End of Version #2)
1. Question: How far does it extend?
2. Answer (Rav Avya): It extends less than the length of a barley seed, more than a wheat kernel.

| Chesed club | How to get started | Guide for the Shomrim | Short Prayer | In English |
| Short Prayer In Hebrew | 10 Rules Of Shmiras | Haloshon | Hebrew/English |

851 N.E. 182 Tr
N.M.B. Fl. 33162
305.491.1326 Cell
786.999.0282 Fax