Chulin 54 - CHECKING A
1) CHECKING A "DERUSAH" (cont.)
(a) (Rav Bibi bar Abaye): A puncture of any size in the Veshet is Tereifah; the same applies to redness of any size on account of venom.
(b) Question (Rav Bibi): In the Kaneh, a hole the size of an Isar (a coin) is Tereifah - how much redness is Tereifah?
(c) Answer (Rav Bibi): Redness of any size is Tereifah.
1. This is because the venom burns.
(d) (R. Yitzchak bar Shmuel bar Marsa): One must check around innards of a Derusah.
(e) (Rav Nachman): I swear, Rav requires from the Kafa until the hip!
1. Question: To which Kafa does he refer?
i. Suggestion: He refers to the shoulder blade of the foreleg.
ii. Rejection: If so, he agrees with R. Yitzchak (there would be no need to swear!)
2. Answer: Rather, he refers to the base of the brain.
(f) (R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish): One must check the innards.
(g) (R. Chiya bar Yosef): Rav requires from the Kafa until the hip.
1. Reish Lakish: Who is this 'Rav'?
2. R. Yochanan: He learned from Rebbi and R. Chiya! He sat before Rebbi, whereas I had to stand; he is great in Torah and piety.
2) OTHER "TEREIFOS"
(a) (Reish Lakish citing Rav): If in a slaughtered animal the Kaneh was found uprooted, it is Kosher - had it been uprooted from before slaughter, the Kaneh could not have been cut.
(b) (R. Yochanan): One makes another cut in the Kaneh (now, after slaughter) - if it resembles the first cut, we assume that the Kaneh was already uprooted when the first cut (the slaughter) was done.
(c) (Mishnah): This is the rule...
(d) Question: What does this come to include?
(e) Answer: It includes the seven teachings of the Amora'im (42A).
(f) Certain hunters would kill animals by hitting them on the Gid ha'Nasheh.
(g) Question: Does this make an animal Tereifah?
(h) Answer (R. Yehudah ben Beseira): No - we cannot add to the Tereifos that Chachamim listed.
(i) Certain hunters would kill animals by hitting them on the kidney.
(j) Question: Does this make an animal Tereifah?
(k) Answer (R. Aba): No - we cannot add to the Tereifos that Chachamim listed.
(l) Question: But we see, the animals die from this!
(m) Answer: We have a tradition - if a salve was applied, they could live.
3) WOUNDS THAT DO NOT MAKE AN ANIMAL TEREIFAH
(a) (Mishnah): The following animals are Kosher:
1. The Kaneh was punctured or split.
i. Question: How much can be missing (and it is still Kosher?)
ii. Answer (R. Shimon ben Gamliel): Up to the size of an Isar may be missing.
2. Part of the skull is lacking, but the membrane is intact;
3. The heart was punctured, but the hole does not reach an inner chamber;
4. The backbone was broken, but the spinal cord was not cut;
5. The liver was removed, but a k'Zayis remains;
6. The wall between the Masas and Beis ha'Kosos (intermediate stomachs) was punctured;
7. The spleen or kidneys were removed;
8. The lower jaw was removed;
9. The lung dried by natural causes;
(b) R. Meir says, if the skin was removed, it is Kosher;
(c) Chachamim say, it is Tereifah.
(d) (Gemara - R. Yochanan): The Mishnah (42A) 'These make an animal Tereifah' is precise (nothing is omitted.)
(e) (Reish Lakish): (Our Mishnah) 'An animal with any of these defects is Kosher' is precise.
(f) They argue about Rav Masna's law.
1. (Rav Masna): If the hip bone was dislocated, it is Tereifah.
2. According to R. Yochanan, 'this is the rule' (in the Mishnah 42A) includes cases similar to the Mishnah which are also Tereifah;
i. The Tana was afraid that people will think that Rav Masna's case is also included (since dislocation is like something missing) - therefore, he taught '*These* are Tereifos', to exclude Rav Masna's case.
3. According to Reish Lakish, 'this is the rule' (42A) includes similar cases which are also Tereifah;
i. The Tana saw that Rav Masna's case, even though it is Tereifah, is not included (since dislocation is not a puncture, cut, or missing) - therefore, he taught (here) '*These* are Kosher', to exclude Rav Masna's case.
(g) (Rav Masna): If the hip bone was dislocated, it is Tereifah.
1. (Rava): It is Kosher - but if the attached sinew is cut, it is Tereifah.
2. The law is, even if the sinew is cut it is Kosher, unless it is corroded.
4) A PART MISSING IN THE "KANEH"
(a) (Mishnah) Question: How much can be missing...?
(b) (Ze'iri): The Isar is the same size like the Dinar of Kordina'ah, and like small Peshiti of Pumbadisa.
(c) R. Chana (a moneychanger) related that Bar Nafcha wanted to see the Kordina'ah Dinar; Bar Nafcha did not let R. Chana stand up for him.
1. Bar Nafcha: Workers are not allowed to (stop working to) stand for Chachamim.
2. Question (Mishnah): (When people come bearing Bikurim), all workers stand for them, greet them and bless them.
3. Answer (R. Yochanan): Yes, workers stand for people bearing Bikurim, but they don't stand for Chachamim.
4. (R. Yosi bar Avin): This shows how great is a Mitzvah in its time - we honor one engaged in a Mitzvah more than we honor Chachamim!
5. Rejection: Perhaps letter of the law, we do not - this was a special enactment regarding Bikurim, lest people will not bother to bring Bikurim again (because they received no encouragement.)
5) DOES 'UNTIL' MEAN 'INCLUDING'?
(a) (Rav Nachman): When Chachamim required (the size of) a Sela (Rashi - a skull missing a Sela is Tereifah; R. Tam - if all the skin was removed but a Sela remains, it is Kosher; Tosfos - if there is a hole the size of a Sela in the outer Keres, it is Tereifah), exactly a Sela is like more than a Sela;
1. Our Mishnah says that a hole in the Kaneh 'until the size of an Isar' is Kosher - exactly an Isar is like more than an Isar.
2. Inference: Rav Nachman holds that the language 'Ad (until)' connotes 'until but not including'.
3. Question (Rava - Mishnah): If a rope sticks out of a bed, until five Tefachim, it is Tahor (i.e. if it becomes Tamei, the bed does not become Tamei with it - this is because it is too short to be useful.)
i. Suggestion: This means until and including five!
4. Answer: No, it means until but not including five.
5. Question (Rava - Mishnah): From five Tefachim until 10, it is Tamei.
i. Suggestion: This means until and including 10 Tefachim!
6. Answer: No, it means until but not including 10.